What is a dungeon?

[Henry]

Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh - never played it.

Dwellers of the Forbidden City - Not really; though enclosed, the locations are pretty open to visit in whatever order you please, IIRC.

Speaker in Dreams - at first I thought "no", but I seem to recall it has a pretty sharp timeline; depending on definition, it's more of a "chronological dungeon."

Freeport trilogy - like Speaker in Dreams, more of a "Chronological Dungeon" than a dungeon in the traditional sense.

Steading of the Hill Giant Chief - though there are many ways to approach it, it's usually approached and handled in the manner of a "Dungeon" - plus, there's a good old-fashioned "dungeon" in it!

Slavepits of the Undercity - Typical Dungeon.

The Standing Stones - never played it.

Beyond the Crystal Cave - typical Dungeon, IIRC.

Isle of Dread - no; totally freeform in encounter matrix, and plenty of opportunity to move from one encounter to another. There are some small Dungeons within it, but the overall module is pretty freeform in encounters.

Dungeonland - Though it's a demiplane, it's still too open-ended for me to call it a Dungeon.

Queen of the Demonweb Pits - classic Dungeon. navigate the web, if you fall off the path you're probably dead!



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Side Question:

Hmmm. I was expecting less scientific definitions.

I'm curious why you asked if it could be written in a single sentence in this case?

 

[Ourph]

In my opinion there's a distinct difference between a dungeon* and other "walled space" environments in the game. A place that simply restricts movement along pre-determined lines isn't necessarily a dungeon. I might call those things by other names (a lair, a castle, a building, a cavern comlex, etc.) but even an underground complex constructed for the purpose of holding prisoners doesn't qualify as a dungeonif it doesn't meet certain requirements. Among these...

1 - It must be "the unknown" to the PCs. A dungeon is a place of mystery.
2 - It must be a structure NOT being used by its original creator for its original purpose. The concept of a dungeon, to me, implies a place which has been abandoned and later re-populated by dangerous creatures.
3 - It must be large. A simple collection of 8 or so rooms isn't enough to provide the atmosphere of a real "dungeon". If it's not large enough for you to get lost in, it's not a real dungeon.

*Note that I'm using the term dungeon to mean something very specific in game terms and not the real world definition. If this were a discussion about the real world definition we'd all just look up the term in the dictionary. For purposes of this post, dungeon is used to describe a very specific adventuring environment.

Examples of dungeons in published adventures...

B1 In Search of the Unknown
T1 Village of Hommlet (the Moathouse, although this is a little on the small side)
A1 Slaves Pits of the Undercity
Judges Guild's Tegel Manor
and of course, the original dungeon of dungeons, Castle Greyhawk.

 

[T. Foster]

"The huge ruined pile, a vast castle built by generations of mad wizards and insane geniuses" -- OD&D vol. I, pp. 5-6

Classic examples of dungeon adventures:
Tegel Manor
Caverns of Thracia
The dungeons underneath Castle Blackmoor in "First Fantasy Campaign"

Classic examples of non-dungeon adventures:
Isle of Dread
The Assassin's Knot

Modern examples of dungeon adventures:
Maure Castle (Dungeon issues 112, 124, 139, ff.)

Modern examples of non-dungeon adventures:
Too numerous to list

 

[Quasqueton]

I'm curious why you asked if it could be written in a single sentence in this case?

I’m not complaining about the answers. In fact, I’m getting pretty much exactly what I asked for. Just some of them sound like a dictionary item: “A nonluminous celestial body larger than an asteroid or comet, illuminated by light from a star, such as the sun, around which it revolves.” But I did ask for the term to be “defined”, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

Personally, I think I’ll use an edited version of Turanil’s definition: “A dungeon is a network of rooms/caves inhabited by monsters to be overcome and treasures to be discovered.”

I’m about to post a poll on the subject, and I needed a working definition to avoid all the questions about the intended meaning.

Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

Classic examples of dungeon adventures:
Tegel Manor
Caverns of Thracia
The dungeons underneath Castle Blackmoor in "First Fantasy Campaign"

Classic examples of non-dungeon adventures:
Isle of Dread
The Assassin's Knot

Modern examples of dungeon adventures:
Maure Castle (Dungeon issues 112, 124, 139, ff.)

Modern examples of non-dungeon adventures:
Too numerous to list

So there are so many modern non-dungeon adventures that you can’t mention even one? I guess that means there were so few classic dungeon adventures that you could list [all] three?

Usually when someone says “too numerous to list”, it really means, “I want to believe there are many, but I don’t actually know of any.”

Quasqueton

 

[Whisper72]

Well, lessee, I must admit that I have not actually played/DMmed all of these, so I may be a bit off, but based on the description/quick read through, I'd say that the following are dungeons (looking at some newer modules here):

RTTOEE
Sunless Citadel
Forge of Fury
Heart of Nightfang Spire
Deep Horizon
Bastion of Broken Souls
Lord of the Iron Fortress
Rappan Athuk
Sons of Gruumsh
COTSQ
Voyage of the Golden Dragon (most stuff happens in constrained locations)
Grasp of the Emerald Claw

and the following are not-dungeons.
Whisper's of the Vampire's Blade
Shadows of the Last War
Speaker in Dreams
Standing Stone

P.S. In my own view, the 'chronological' dungeons are not dungeons, in my own definition, there is a matter of physical location/constraints that should apply for it to be considered a dungeon, but I do like the idea of a 'chronological dungeon' as a seperate concept however...

 

[T. Foster]

So there are so many modern non-dungeon adventures that you can’t mention even one? I guess that means there were so few classic dungeon adventures that you could list [all] three?

Usually when someone says “too numerous to list”, it really means, “I want to believe there are many, but I don’t actually know of any.”

Quasqueton

Pretty much. I don't play the current edition of the game, so I'm not in the market for adventures designed for use with it unless there is some overriding consideration to the contrary. Nevertheless, I see lots of adventures advertised here and elsewhere and on the shelves at the LGS and in Dungeon magazine, most of which don't seem to be what I would consider "dungeon" adventures (which is a narrow enough definition that, off the top of my head, I could only think of 4 published adventures (3 classic, 1 modern) that really match it). I don't remember the names of all these adventures, though, because I've never bought any of them.

 

[Mycanid]

Hmm ... I don't think the question is necessarily an "ignorant innocent" one per se, Just from the posts I have seen since the question was posed show a variety of opinions.

I actually thought it was an interesting thing to bring up, to catalyst people to try and come up with a definition, per se. It will be interesting to see where it goes....

Oh yes - I liked the definitions by Henry and Hand of Evil in posts 8 and 9 as most "comprehensive".

 

[Melan]

Strictly speaking: the huge ruined pile T. Foster is writing about -- an immense labyrinth that could encompass a whole campaign.

By my definition: an enclosed game environment designed primarily with an eye towards challenging the players, built on a combination of surrealism and game logic versus conventional ecology and "realism".

In the popular view: any adventure set underground, or in a castle/tower/other built structure.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

A dungeon (derived from the Old French donjon, from the Latin dominus, "lord"), was originally what was leter known as the keep, the main tower of a castle. Over time the use changed to mean an underground prison or vault, typically built underneath a castle. Most dungeons are simply a single plain room with a heavy door or with access only from a hatchway or trapdoor in the floor (see also oubliette, above).

Any larger, multi-level underground area is simply ridiculous. Where has all of the excavated material gone?