D&D General What Is D&D Generally Bad At That You Wish It Was Better At?

[GrimCo]

But you are right, 5E is the MCU version of D&D and the design only cares about your next big fight.

I would argue that it started with 3ed and with every edition, characters became more competent and more powerful.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I would argue that it started with 3ed and with every edition, characters became more competent and more powerful.

My personal perspective, could be wrong, is that 4e provided a stronger break between the various Tiers than 3.x. or 5e.
I feel 5e confused things somewhat with bounded accuracy (an attempt for lower CR's to be threatening to higher level PCs for a greater level span which doesn't work so well because of hp bloat). Perhaps a reason for the disconnect in this discussion.

 

[Reynard]

I would argue that it started with 3ed and with every edition, characters became more competent and more powerful.

Sure, but 3.x still had lots of rules for the "other stuff." Whether that is a good thing or not is a point of preference, but those rules were there (along with a regular stream of supplements aimed at GMs for the specific sorts of things they were interested in). 5E seems to have whittled away the non-combat parts of the game pretty thoroughly.

 

[GrimCo]

My personal perspective, could be wrong, is that 4e provided a stronger break between the various Tiers than 3.x. or 5e.
I feel 5e confused things somewhat with bounded accuracy (an attempt for lower CR's to be threatening to higher level PCs for a greater level span which doesn't work so well because of hp bloat). Perhaps a reason for the disconnect in this discussion.

Might be. But i'm going by pure power level here. There was significant increase in character power and durability from 2ed to 3ed. More hp due to 1st level max and bonus from con ( in 3ed, with 12 con you get +1 hep, while in 2ed you needed 15 in con for +1 and only fighters benefited from con higher than 16 for more hp, everyone else got +2, while in 3e everyone gets +2/+3/+4). Also, dex gives more AC and it kicks in earlier ( 12 gives +1, while it was 15 for +1). Harder to hit, more hp, more abilities, more spells ( 0 level utilities 3 times per day means something), half casters getting stronger spells and spellcasting earlier( paladin got it at level 9, ranger level 8 in 2ed, in 3ed they can cast spells at level 4), more attacks. More capable and stronger overall. PF1 (or 3.75 as we called it) introduced at will cantrips and raised power level even higher.

With more codified character abilities, game shifted from skilled player to skilled character.

 

[Distracted DM]

Might be. But i'm going by pure power level here. There was significant increase in character power and durability from 2ed to 3ed. More hp due to 1st level max and bonus from con ( in 3ed, with 12 con you get +1 hep, while in 2ed you needed 15 in con for +1 and only fighters benefited from con higher than 16 for more hp, everyone else got +2, while in 3e everyone gets +2/+3/+4). Also, dex gives more AC and it kicks in earlier ( 12 gives +1, while it was 15 for +1). Harder to hit, more hp, more abilities, more spells ( 0 level utilities 3 times per day means something), half casters getting stronger spells and spellcasting earlier( paladin got it at level 9, ranger level 8 in 2ed, in 3ed they can cast spells at level 4), more attacks. More capable and stronger overall. PF1 (or 3.75 as we called it) introduced at will cantrips and raised power level even higher.

With more codified character abilities, game shifted from skilled player to skilled character.

The focus also shifted off of magic items as being the focus for your character- a magic item that has a bunch of cool abilities is now almost lost amidst the cool abilities the character gets from their multitude of features. But 2e had a good number of cool abilities for a character as well, it wasn't just 3e onward.. they just weren't in the core books, they were added with all the splats.

 

[Reynard]

Might be. But i'm going by pure power level here. There was significant increase in character power and durability from 2ed to 3ed. More hp due to 1st level max and bonus from con ( in 3ed, with 12 con you get +1 hep, while in 2ed you needed 15 in con for +1 and only fighters benefited from con higher than 16 for more hp, everyone else got +2, while in 3e everyone gets +2/+3/+4). Also, dex gives more AC and it kicks in earlier ( 12 gives +1, while it was 15 for +1). Harder to hit, more hp, more abilities, more spells ( 0 level utilities 3 times per day means something), half casters getting stronger spells and spellcasting earlier( paladin got it at level 9, ranger level 8 in 2ed, in 3ed they can cast spells at level 4), more attacks. More capable and stronger overall. PF1 (or 3.75 as we called it) introduced at will cantrips and raised power level even higher.

With more codified character abilities, game shifted from skilled player to skilled character.

Monsters got a major boost, though, and so it sort of even out in the wash (but did change the overall tone and power level).

I remember the first time in 3e when an ogre critted with a power attack and we were all blown away (except the target, who was more pureed).

 

[TwoSix]

Sure, but 3.x still had lots of rules for the "other stuff." Whether that is a good thing or not is a point of preference, but those rules were there (along with a regular stream of supplements aimed at GMs for the specific sorts of things they were interested in). 5E seems to have whittled away the non-combat parts of the game pretty thoroughly.

To be fair, that's because ~90% of the rules for environmental or other non-combat challenges in 3e boiled down to "Do you have a spell for that?"

 

[TwoSix]

With more codified character abilities, game shifted from skilled player to skilled character.

To be pedantic, the change was from "are you, as a player, skilled at open-ended narrative negotiation with the DM" to "are you, as a player, skilled at leveraging the player-focused character building mechanics".

 

[Reynard]

To be fair, that's because ~90% of the rules for environmental or other non-combat challenges in 3e boiled down to "Do you have a spell for that?"

I don't recall that being the case. there wer elists upon lists of DCs for specific tasks for skills, along with tons of gear (both mundane and magical). Casters certainly COULD circumvent challenges in 3.x, but that has always been true of D&D, whereas 3E made an effort at least to create systems by which skill monkeys could do useful things as well.

Fighters were still screwed, tho.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't recall that being the case. there wer elists upon lists of DCs for specific tasks for skills, along with tons of gear (both mundane and magical). Casters certainly COULD circumvent challenges in 3.x, but that has always been true of D&D, whereas 3E made an effort at least to create systems by which skill monkeys could do useful things as well.

Fighters were still screwed, tho.

Our recollections differ, then. Even in the few cases where high skill checks could obviate challenges, those checks were generally augmented with copious amounts of magic.