What is Expected from an Oriental Game Setting?

[Mallus]

Inauthenticity.

Also, pajamas.

 

[jgbrowning]

For it to be universally praised, but almost never actually played.

-The Gneech

Sad, but mostly, true.

And it needs to sell poorly as well.

joe b.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

What do I desires, or what do I EXPECT?

What I EXPECT are people who don't grasp that China, Japan, Korea, and other south-eastern Asian countries are all drastically different. I expect the focus to be far more centered on Japan. I expect, in spite of this, an odd abundance of metal everywhere. I expect very little in the form of caste systems or alternate religious types.

What I DESIRE is the exact opposite

 

[jmucchiello]

What I EXPECT are people who don't grasp that China, Japan, Korea, and other south-eastern Asian countries are all drastically different. I expect the focus to be far more centered on Japan. I expect, in spite of this, an odd abundance of metal everywhere. I expect very little in the form of caste systems or alternate religious types.

Jade Oath is actually based mostly on Chinese folklore. If you read the names of the clans and such in the "where Jade Oath came from" link in Frank's sig you'll see the names are very Chinese. Jade Oath is the brainchild of one person. And he is well aware of the cultural difference you don't expect to find.

I guess I should also mention that Throwing Dice Games is no longer associated with the release of Lands of the Jade Oath. Good Luck to Frank and Rites Publishing with finally getting this book finished.

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm not a really big fan of strongly mirroring specific real-world cultures in a fantasy setting. I prefer the whole "stick a bunch of influences in a blender and hit puree" approach.

Unfortunately, they stick too much European influence in the blender, so you'll end up having blonde-haired blue-eyed samurai with Western concept of honor, but for the simple fact that white-dominated western buying populace can relate to something as foreign as Asian.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

First off, before I begin, I will offer a caveat. I believe in modifying cultures to fit the needs of the game and the setting, not the other way around. To that end, what I would be doing with the Orient is nothing that countless writers have not already done with the Occident. As we all should know, D&D is not a true and historical approximation of medieval or Feudal Europe in any sense. If it were, you would not have adventuring bands scouring ruins for treasure, you would not have sentient nonhuman races with their own societies interacting with humans, you would not have wizards casting magic (they would be burned at the stake in the true medieval Europe), you would not have anachronistic types of weapons and armor existing at the same time, and so forth. Writers have not adapted the setting or the game to make an accurate simulation of European culture, but rather have borrowed elements of European culture to fit into the setting and the game.

Hence Oriental-based cultures will necessarily undergo many of the same types of changes. Dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, goblins, and other humanoids all exist alongside humans-as with humans, these races exist around the world on every continent. However, like their human counterparts, the demihumans and humanoids have their own cultural variations-halflings may alternately occupy high ranks in a given social structure due to their skills in agriculture and farming the land, whereas dwarves are actively courted in feuds between human clans for their skills in metalworking and their prowess in combat, as well as their strict adhesions to oaths and their lawful behavior.

The social structure does exist, but it has more flexibility than you might imagine. Feudal Europe was often a very stratified society itself, with little upward mobility, as we see with peasantry, serfdom and the ideas of noble and aristocratic bloodlines. Yet, in spite of this, adventuring bands can and do contain people of different races and social rank-so too is it for an Oriental setting. Oriental societies will be more stratified, to be sure, but adventurers by their nature often operate outside this social structure or tend to upset it, and so those who have been disgraced or suffered a loss of position, or who otherwise wish to improve their lots in life, will choose the adventuring path.

The question of honor and feuds is an interesting one-if this is too heavily emphasized, one may question whether a person will ever say or do something that could be construed as dishonorable or that could provoke a feud. One thing that struck me as odd in the original OA adventure was the presence of wako, or Oriental pirates-shouldn't they be acting honorably as well, or is this just something for the PCs? Do NPCs ever insult people, either not caring or even hoping that their words will provoke a vendetta or a feud? How do these conflicts start if everyone, PC and NPC alike, always acts to avoid provoking feuds or dishonor?

Please note that not all of this is meant to dismiss the very real differences that Oriental-inspired lands will have from those inspired by Europe...but it IS important to avoid the double standard of bending and stretching European culture to fit the needs of the game and the setting, while insisting on stricter authenticity to Oriental culture. The object should not be to strictly reproduce the culture-we don't do it with Europe, so why should we do it with the Aztec Empire, Ethiopia or Rwanda, Mongolia or Japan, or any other non-European culture that existed at the same time as Feudal Europe? To be sure, there will be differences between different parts of the world...but there will be many common links, including the presence of orcs and elves worldwide, the same rules governing magic, and so forth. How different parts of the world interpret and react to these tendencies will vary, of course, but they all inhabit the same world and must all abide by its rules. Just as the Euro-inspired parts of the setting will by necessity react to the presence of real, actual sorcery and sentient nonhumans that can be interacted with face-to-face, so too will the parts inspired by the Far East, Mesoamerica, or Africa.

 

[Oni]

Here is what I would like out of an OA type book.

I would like it match the general feel of the game it is being attached to in terms of the gritty to anime spectrum. That is to say it needs to be modular in a way that it can be pieced in with the rest of the rules and still work.

I would like it to make as much use of the existing rules as it can before it starts adding new things for the sake of it. For instance I've always been annoyed by the samurai classes you see. Why can't you just use a fighter for that. With 4e now I think the need for new classes is lessened even more as current classes could be altered in flavor with just the addition of new powers.

Discuss the basics of all the major eastern cultures, and don't focus on just one. Talk about how the classes fit into each style of culture and all the other broad aspects of culture that influence roleplay and world building and have a good list of go to places for more specific information. (the author ought to have one if they did anygood writing the book in the first place).

Talk about how these cultures could be mixed and matched, and then have a good example of a mixed at matched world with all this stuff put together as a complete setting.

Examples of all the extremely varied types of campaigns that could be run in the hugely varied types of cultures.

Basically I want a big resource book that can be used as a setting or can be used to build a setting that ranges from a fuedal japan analogue to something completely new and original.

 

[Shroomy]

Instead of a fantasy-historical pastiche set in a Western/Northern European analog, I expect a fantasy-historical pastiche set in a East/SE/South Asian analog. Bring back Kara-Tur!

 

[Qwillion]

Rite Publishing to produce Lands of the Jade Oath (Patronage Project SIGN UP NOW!)

And it needs to sell poorly as well.

joe b.

Hence why we are doing this as a Patronage Project so that it gets made with high production quality and still sells enough not to put Rite Publishing into hock.


I would also like to thank jmucchiello for being so gracious.

 

[Ranger REG]

First off, before I begin, I will offer a caveat. I believe in modifying cultures to fit the needs of the game and the setting, not the other way around. To that end, what I would be doing with the Orient is nothing that countless writers have not already done with the Occident. As we all should know, D&D is not a true and historical approximation of medieval or Feudal Europe in any sense. If it were, you would not have adventuring bands scouring ruins for treasure, you would not have sentient nonhuman races with their own societies interacting with humans, you would not have wizards casting magic (they would be burned at the stake in the true medieval Europe), you would not have anachronistic types of weapons and armor existing at the same time, and so forth. Writers have not adapted the setting or the game to make an accurate simulation of European culture, but rather have borrowed elements of European culture to fit into the setting and the game.

Borrowed, you say? Huh.

Hence Oriental-based cultures will necessarily undergo many of the same types of changes. Dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, goblins, and other humanoids all exist alongside humans-as with humans, these races exist around the world on every continent.

But aren't dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings, etc., borrowed elements from European folklore?

The social structure does exist, but it has more flexibility than you might imagine. Feudal Europe was often a very stratified society itself, with little upward mobility, as we see with peasantry, serfdom and the ideas of noble and aristocratic bloodlines. Yet, in spite of this, adventuring bands can and do contain people of different races and social rank-so too is it for an Oriental setting. Oriental societies will be more stratified, to be sure, but adventurers by their nature often operate outside this social structure or tend to upset it, and so those who have been disgraced or suffered a loss of position, or who otherwise wish to improve their lots in life, will choose the adventuring path.

Granted, I would allow this latitude.

The question of honor and feuds is an interesting one-if this is too heavily emphasized, one may question whether a person will ever say or do something that could be construed as dishonorable or that could provoke a feud. One thing that struck me as odd in the original OA adventure was the presence of wako, or Oriental pirates-shouldn't they be acting honorably as well, or is this just something for the PCs? Do NPCs ever insult people, either not caring or even hoping that their words will provoke a vendetta or a feud? How do these conflicts start if everyone, PC and NPC alike, always acts to avoid provoking feuds or dishonor?

Pirates in Japan do exist, usually classified under the lowest class, as are highwaymen and robbers. They try not to get caught, or else face punishment. Even the most savvy pirate can go about in public as a noted merchant, while hiding his secret. Even prostitutes and geishas have their place in such a society.