What is GURPS?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I have played Hero system only as a supers game (Champions), but enjoyed it more than GURPS. It has more stats, which makes it easier for me to define the character that I want.

HERO has STR, DEX, CON, BODY, INT, EGO, PRE, COM, PD, ED, REC, Spd, END, STUN, and basic movement rate.

Equivalently, GURPS has ST, DX, HT, hit points, INT, Will, levels of Charisma, levels of Appearance, DR and limited DR, Fatigue recovery advantages, Basic Speed, Fatigue, and basic move. It lacks STUN. GURPS further has numerous Advantages and Disadvantages like Ham-Fisted or Musical Talent.

I'd say GURPS actually wins this one, handily.

Nope.

HERO has Advantages and Disads as well, called Talents and...Disads. Disadvantages in particular are open ended- there are some defined in the book, but several of those are actually mere exemplars. For example, the Vulnerability disad has several listed, but the sheer number of Vulnerabilities is limited only by imagination.

(I'm not familiar enough with GURPS 4Ed to know if it has a similar open-ended disadvantage structure.)

Then there's "package deals" which are GM/Player created groups of powers, skills, talents, disads, etc. that make one a member of a particular race, species, family, mutation type, organization, or other easily definable subgroup- like suffering from the long-term health effects from a disease or weapon, or perhaps a curse (like Lycanthropy or becoming a Wendigo).

At best, GURPS claims a draw here.

 

[pawsplay]

Everytime GURPS comes up in discussion I start thinking "Man, I really ought to check out the new edition." And then somebody mentions "3d6 roll under" and I lose all enthusiasm for it. I will not try to claim this is a rational reaction.

No less flexible than Hero? It's been a long time since I've messed with either system--probably a couple editions back in both cases--but I definitely remember that character options in GURPS were a pick-from-a-list kind of deal, while in Hero there were very build-your-own.

3e introduced a lot of customization options and unified a lot of costs. 4e has a complete, Hero-like advantages system.

 

[pawsplay]

Nope.

HERO has Advantages and Disads as well, called Talents and...Disads.
Disadvantages in particular are open ended- there are some defined in the book, but several of those are actually mere exemplars. For example, the Vulnerability disad has several listed, but the sheer number of Vulnerabilities is limited only by imagination.

(I'm not familiar enough with GURPS 4Ed to know if it has a similar open-ended disadvantage structure.)

And then some. Many things that are Psychological Limitation (Common, Strong) or Physical Limitation (Common, Moderate) are specific Disadvantages in GURPS, while Vulnerabilities and such are pretty open-ended.

Options in HERO are fairly paltry compared to GURPS's Empathy, Lame, Smooth Operator, and so forth. HERO works for broad strokes, but if you want to tickle the details, I'd say GURPS really has it. And as of 4e, HERO can claim only the most minor advantages even in the super-power department.

While the games have their historic strengths and weaknesses, the two games have come to parity in almost every meaningful way.

As far as detailed traits for characterizing someone, GURPS still has superior fine-ness, by a smidge. HERO still has some advantages in scaling to large values.

Then there's "package deals" which are GM/Player created groups of powers, skills, talents, disads, etc. that make one a member of a particular race, species, family, mutation type, organization, or other easily definable subgroup- like suffering from the long-term health effects from a disease or weapon, or perhaps a curse (like Lycanthropy or becoming a Wendigo).

These are called "templates" in GURPS.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Options in HERO are fairly paltry compared to GURPS's Empathy, Lame, Smooth Operator, and so forth.

Oh come now! That kind of bald statement of opinion as fact needs some kind of backing before it can be accepted.

HERO works for broad strokes, but if you want to tickle the details, I'd say GURPS really has it.

Again, I'd need some kind of concrete evidence thereof.

 

[pawsplay]

Oh come now! That kind of bald statement of opinion as fact needs some kind of backing before it can be accepted.

Again, I'd need some kind of concrete evidence thereof.

Let's look at Dai Blackthorn, one of the sample characters. Besides a psychic danger sense and a warp power, he as Abolute Direction, Flexibility (a kind of minor double-jointedness), Honest Face (a 1 point Advantage), Legal Enforcement Powers, and Perfect Balance.

Absolute Direction translates without problem, LEP turns into a Perk (ISWAT agent). Flexibility would probably just be Double-jointed in Her.o Honest Face is probably not a Hero trait. Perfect Balance would hae to be constructed; it grants a bonus to DX rolls to keep your feet, a bonus to avoid being tripped or knocked down, and a +1 bonus to Acrobatics, Climbing, and Piloting. In Hero, I think you would have to do a personal Change Environment that improves balance.

Dai also has a Duty to ISWAT (Watched). He is a light sleeper, a minor Disavantage that has no equivalent in Hero. He has overconfidence and sense of duty, both psychological limitations. He's poor.

He also has 5 quirks: Dislikes deep water; loves high places; no drugs or alcohol; sensitive about his height; and showoff. Showoff translates into a very common, moderate disad, and no drugs or alcohol is probably a common, moderate disad. In HERO terms, he's already bursting at the seams in terms of PsychLims.

There are no Hero equivalents to his disliking deep water, loving high places, and being sensitive about his height.

So as you can see, while Hero and GURPS have very similar traits, GURPS has some very fine traits that make Dai uniquely Dai.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Ooh what a good thread. Have really enjoyed it. Jurgen has given some very nice explanations of GURPS 4E that make me very curious to try it out.

I'm still more a fan of HERO myself but, hey, each to their own. I use HERO primarily for supers, at which it excels, but have recently bought Pulp HERO and am eager to try it out. One thing both HERO and GURPS have in common is, at normal person level combat has a way of getting very lethal, very fast. It just makes sense to try to out-think or out-talk the bad guys before going for your gun. I like that.

GURPS (3E anyway, as implied above haven't tried 4E) has a shopping list style of advantages, powers, disads etc. This just appeals less to me than the HERO method of 'imagine something, then work out how to model it.' Of course the GURPS way is handy if you want a quicker and easier start and is more accessible for new RPGers who have suggestions to work from. I picked GURPS character gen up in minutes. Cannot honestly say the the same for HERO but now I'm used to it I really like the tinkerability of it.

Like any system though: the better you know it, the easier it is to use it and make it jump through hoops.

cheers all.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

There are no Hero equivalents to his disliking deep water, loving high places, and being sensitive about his height.

Hey? Of course there is:

Psych Lim: Dislikes deep water (uncommon, moderate) -5

or he could be a genuine hydrophobe: Psych Lim: hydrophobe (uncommon, strong) -10

Psych Lim: Sensitive about his height (Uncommon, moderate) -5

or he could be really sensitve about his height (Uncommon, strong) -10

Or he could be picked on for it a lot more due to cultural reasons (Common, moderate) -10.

In terms of mechanics : Moderate should guide role playing. Strong requires a dice roll based on EGO to go against the psych lim. Very Strong requires a dice roll with a penalty.
Very Common, Common, uncommon just refer to frequency of an event and this depends on the campaign. (a hydrophobe in a campaign set in Atlantis gets more points.)

Tinkerability. I like it.

 

[jdrakeh]

Hey? Of course there is:

Psych Lim: Dislikes deep water (uncommon, moderate) -5

or he could be a genuine hydrophobe: Psych Lim: hydrophobe (uncommon, strong) -10

Psych Lim: Sensitive about his height (Uncommon, moderate) -5

or he could be really sensitve about his height (Uncommon, strong) -10

Or he could be picked on for it a lot more due to cultural reasons (Common, moderate) -10.

In terms of mechanics : Moderate should guide role playing. Strong requires a dice roll based on EGO to go against the psych lim. Very Strong requires a dice roll with a penalty.
Very Common, Common, uncommon just refer to frequency of an event and this depends on the campaign. (a hydrophobe in a campaign set in Atlantis gets more points.)

Tinkerability. I like it.

Except GURPS 'quirks' aren't actual flaws that impact game play mechanically. Hero limitations, conversely, are. . . erm. . . limiting.

 

[pawsplay]

Except GURPS 'quirks' aren't actual flaws that impact game play mechanically. Hero limitations, conversely, are. . . erm. . . limiting.

In Hero terms, all quirks would be Moderate. Conservatively, assuming light sleeper is a physical disad, he has at least 80 points in Psychological Limitations if you wanted to construct his quirks as suggested. That would be considered a no-no in most Hero games.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

As I said: at the 'moderate' level they're only supposed to inform roleplaying. Above that then yeah, they're serious disads. I'd argue that any Psych Lim. set at Very Strong implies a character in need of regular counselling.