What is "Iconic Fantasy"

[Simon Marks]

Did I miss anything important?

Don't think so.

Here is another question.

Has there been any hint that 4e won't have (or have room for) everything on that list.

I looked over it... nothing jumps out.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I would like to point out that Mr Pratchett did make that speech over twenty years ago, and has probably changed his mind a little since then...

Especially since his more recent books have included much more in the way in 'steampunk-esque' devices such as a Personal Dis-Organiser (with a tiny imp inside), a mass semaphore system and so on.

Ankh-Morpork (the major Discworld city) has gone from being much like Lankhmar (Fritz Leibers city) to more like an early Victorian London in feel, at least to my eyes.

So I'd agree that whilst his basic point is accurate (a mosaic of elements), I also think that the current state of the mosaic is different to how it was 20 years ago.

 

[Goken100]

I would like to point out that Mr Pratchett did make that speech over twenty years ago, and has probably changed his mind a little since then...

Especially since his more recent books have included much more in the way in 'steampunk-esque' devices such as a Personal Dis-Organiser (with a tiny imp inside), a mass semaphore system and so on.

Ankh-Morpork (the major Discworld city) has gone from being much like Lankhmar (Fritz Leibers city) to more like an early Victorian London in feel, at least to my eyes.

So I'd agree that whilst his basic point is accurate (a mosaic of elements), I also think that the current state of the mosaic is different to how it was 20 years ago.

Good point, D&D has moved on, Pratchett has moved on, that's the way of things. But D&D could still be that mish-mash of the general fantasy consciousness, and it's dissapointing that the designers aren't embracing that as much as they could.

By the way, I think I just decided what the dominant religion in my campaign is. Pratchettism.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

True, but, OTOH, Britney Spears is an iconic pop star.

No, but she does fit the mold of iconic pop stars.

I get the idea that certain works are iconic. I get that. LotR is an icon of fantasy. But, why is LotR considered an icon?

Time.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

"4e no longer supports iconic fantasy."

This is a criticism I've seen more than once about 4e. It's cropped up from time to time in a number of different threads, under a few different variations. My problem is, I have no idea what it means.

Does "Iconic Fantasy" simply mean "Fantasy I like which is superior to any other fantasy" or is there something else to this?

I've always thought iconic means that its easily recognizable to everyone. So, what is iconic fantasy? I mean, most of fantasy is pretty obscure. Ask 100 people what Hyperborea is, and not that many can answer. Ask who Rhialto is, and you'd likely get even less. Heck, even ask who Fafrd is and I'll bet that 9 out of 10 people have no idea.

Ask them what Hogwarts is, and they'll get it in one. Who is Pikachu? Yup, know that one.

So, what exactly is "iconic fantasy"?

labyrinth, record of lodoss war, berserk, last unicorn, lord of the rings (any), etc

its different with different people, but Iconic Fantasy is that thing that makes one reminisce of days long ago that never were. Lands with dragons and knights and old knowledge on the brink of oblivion.

 

[Wormwood]

I'd say Diablo, Warcraft and Ultima were works of iconic fantasy.

 

[Fifth Element]

...it's a nice reminder that nerds really can't agree on anything.

Le mot juste.

Even Pratchett said the mosaic is based on every fantasy story you've ever read. I will bet cash money that no one in the world has read precisely the same set of fantasy stories that I have read in my life. Everyone reads different things, so the inclusion of certain things in "iconic" fantasy will seem obvious to some, but perhaps abhorrent to others. There's no way to define it for everyone.

 

[Odhanan]

"iconic fantasy" means "the way I play D&D". It's used by people who have this weird idea that D&D, and particularly D&D the way they play it, is some sort of baseline of all fantasy fiction.

You, Sir, are totally right on this. It's not about "iconic fantasy" at all, as far as I'm concerned. It's about what kind of D&D content will open the gates of imaginations instead of framing them, to me.

 

[GlassJaw]

Time.

Exactly.

Something becomes iconic because it withstands the test of time and is easily recognized and identified by the "masses".

Like it or not, 1st thru 3ed and Greyhawk are much more iconic than 4E is shaping up to be. And I don't think that's a good thing.

This is not to say that 3ed or Greyhawk is a perfect emulation of Conan, LotR, etc because it's not. But the core ruleset is certainly more iconic than not. If you explain the core fluff of the PHB to a non-D&D player, or even someone that familiar with the fantasy genre in general, I'm fairly confident that they'll "get it". 4E is looking more "out there" when it comes to generic fantasy.

 

[Gloombunny]

Exactly.

Something becomes iconic because it withstands the test of time and is easily recognized and identified by the "masses".

Like it or not, 1st thru 3ed and Greyhawk are much more iconic than 4E is shaping up to be. And I don't think that's a good thing.

This is not to say that 3ed or Greyhawk is a perfect emulation of Conan, LotR, etc because it's not. But the core ruleset is certainly more iconic than not. If you explain the core fluff of the PHB to a non-D&D player, or even someone that familiar with the fantasy genre in general, I'm fairly confident that they'll "get it". 4E is looking more "out there" when it comes to generic fantasy.

I disagree. To me, lizardmen and demon-pacting sorcerers are way more iconic than half-orcs and spell memorization.

But then, I've always preferred sword-and-sorcery to high fantasy.