What is "Iconic Fantasy"

[Doug McCrae]

4E is looking more "out there" when it comes to generic fantasy.

In some ways 4e will be closer to the D&D classics than any previous editions. No more Xmas tree, no more multiple encounters per day required for balance.

 

[Doug McCrae]

4E is looking more "out there" when it comes to generic fantasy.

As Hussar rightly pointed out, Leiber and Vance are a lot more "out there" than kung fu flicks and anime.

 

[pawsplay]

In some ways 4e will be closer to the D&D classics than any previous editions. No more Xmas tree, no more multiple encounters per day required for balance.

The Xmas tree can be seen in the tale of Perseus, in Dunsany's stories, in The Dying Earth, and even in the Hobbit (wherein a 1st-3rd level rogue ends up with a magical weapon, a mithril shirt, and a magical artifact ring in his first campaign).

 

[Commonblade]

For me its LOTR.

Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings

Wizards.

Goblins and Orcs everywhere.

An epic quest with humble beginnings.

Magic items that reek of Uniqueness.

And War...there has to be a war.

 

[GlassJaw]

For me its LOTR.

Same. LotR is iconic fantasy, because it's what most people will envision when they hear "fantasy". Greyhawk/3ed is closer to LotR than it looks like 4E is going to be.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Don't think so.

Here is another question.

Has there been any hint that 4e won't have (or have room for) everything on that list.

I looked over it... nothing jumps out.

Looking back, I think I missed fairies... That's an oversight...

Regardless, I don't think 4E will miss anything important either. The important things that define fantasy have always been the classic story archetypes of quests, wars, and adventures, and the character types who are part of those stories. The particular details any individual work, setting, or story are mostly irrelevant to the broader definition of iconic fantasy and the fantasy genre. It is only the deeper stories that those individual works share in common that are the important iconic stories of fantasy.

I think 4E will reflect those stories just as good as 3E did, or perhaps even better.

 

[TwinBahamut]

The Xmas tree can be seen in the tale of Perseus, in Dunsany's stories, in The Dying Earth, and even in the Hobbit (wherein a 1st-3rd level rogue ends up with a magical weapon, a mithril shirt, and a magical artifact ring in his first campaign).

Those are not even close to being a Christmas Tree of magical items. Perseus had a few items of power, and Frodod had three, but is that anything close to a D&D character who has a belt of strength, magic armor, a magic sword, a magic shield, a cloak of charisma, a ring fire resistance, a ring of lightning resistance, an amulet of health, boots of striding and springing, gloves of dexterity, and a helm of brilliance?

Perseus and Frodo had a few magic items, but considering that the average number of magic items for a mythological/literary character is approximatly one, and Frodo and Perseus lean towards the highest end of the magic item spectrum, you can't say that classic fantasy characters have anywhere near as many magic items as the Christmas Tree effect.

The supposed 4E Christmas Shrub will probably emulate classic fantasy a lot better.

 

[mmadsen]

This is iconic fantasy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdRH7tn2Y0Q

 

[broghammerj]

This is iconic fantasy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdRH7tn2Y0Q

Head of nail, meet hammer!

 

[BASHMAN]

I think it is much easier to define Iconic Fantasy by what it isn't than by what it is.

Iconic fantasy is not-- Rainbow mohawked facial pierced kenderesque halfing anti-paladins riding steam-powered dinosaurs.

Iconic fantasy is not-- messy-haired guys who yell out the name of the attack they are about to do as little pebbles start floating behind them, then unleashing said "chi blast" but missing and taking out half the moon.

Iconic fantasy is not-- having "social encounter rules" to replace actual role-playing & storytelling and skip ahead to 'da dungeon hack!

Iconic fantasy is not-- klingon-looking armor, spiked chains, and magic item shops.

Iconic fantasy is not-- Fighters who can light their sword on fire and shoot flames at enemies by sheer willpower that is somehow not considered magic. Same fighters being able to jump over 50' crevasses while throwing their flaming sword like a boomerang.

I'm not saying any of this stuff is bad/wrong/fun-- just saying that it is not "iconic" fantasy. Also not saying that D&D must be "iconic" fantasy-- Castles & Crusades can pick up that slack, as could OSRIC, Basic Fantasy, GURPS, etc if D&D doesn't want to do that anymore.