D&D 5E (2014) what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?

[Lejaun]

I love 2nd and 5th edition. It was 3rd and 4th edition that lost me and I stopped playing. Once 5th came out and reminded me of 2nd, I came back.

 

[pemerton]

Comparing 5e to 2e (& pre-2e), that's the main issue for me. 5e is significantly more
complex on the player side. Pre 3e you could pretty much just play your character without referring to the rules.

Would you say that this is true for an AD&D cleric or magic-user/wizard?

 

[S'mon]

Would you say that this is true for an AD&D cleric or magic-user/wizard?

Yes - when I posted I was thinking specifically of my son's Classic D&D PC Count William - he's been playing him around 2 years, from MU 4 to current MU 11, starting when he was 6 years old. With 5e D&D he has to play a monster or one of the simpler martial classes.

 

[Maxperson]

In another thread someone said:



And well, there is some truth to that. I realized I missed 2nd ed too. One of the thing that is making me happy about 5e is that it feels to me like a modernized version of 2e. But I haven't played it yet and I assume that cbwjm has. I'm also sure he's not the only one.

So... what is it?

It can't be the AC system. "positive/additive" AC is just plain superior to thac0, end of story.

THACO was insanely easy to use if you had even a modicum of skill with basic math. The difference between THACO and the 3e-5e AC changes is the difference between a $100 and a $120 tire. Sure the more expensive one is a little better, but really, so what.

It can't be the absence of feats, because 5e can be played without them.

True.

It can't be the skill resolution system because let's face it, 5e is simpler and better.

That's your opinion. Perhaps not everyone shares it. I personally don't think the 5e system is all that great. It's not horrible, though.

It can't be the magical items, because 5e brings the old school back and the atunement rule is superior - but if you don't like it very easy to remove.

I strongly disagree. 1e and 2e magic items are far better than anything put out since. They were more fun. They were rarer, which gave them more meaning. They were more powerful, which was balanced by the rarity.

It can't be the ability scores because 5e is much more regular and "fairer" - a 13 is worth something now.

Yep! Like magic items, stats are indeed far less special now. Once the difference between a 14 and an 18 meant a great deal. Now it's meh.

So what is it? Is it the multi-classing? Bounded accuracy? The absence of warlocks, barbarians etc? The saving throws? The less HP? The initiative system? Spell disruption? No cantrips? what?

I would add in that 2e was much more lethal. It wasn't so easy to save against things, or as easy to just pop back up from death. I was scared by encounters in 2e. That has rarely happened in editions since then.

 

[transtemporal]

The earlier editions weren't so obsessed with consistency, standardisation and balance. There were some crazy spells, crazy items. I remember one guy who used a Daerns Instant Fortress as a sneak attack weapon - it caused 1-100 damage in a big aoe on a command word.

 

[transtemporal]

THACO was insanely easy to use if you had even a modicum of skill with basic math.

So insanely easy to use they changed it!

 

[Maxperson]

So insanely easy to use they changed it!

A lot got changed that didn't need to be changed. When you make an edition you have to change things to make it worthwhile to buy.

 

[Lejaun]

A lot got changed that didn't need to be changed. When you make an edition you have to change things to make it worthwhile to buy.

Pretty much how I feel. If they kept the same systems, one would just buy the cheap old books or use what they already have.

 

[Corpsetaker]

2nd edition is by far my favourite edition and not because of nostalgia or anything related.

I like 2nd edition the best because of the system. I like the fact that AC was from 10 to -10, stats maxed out at 25, and every time you leveled you didn't gain some power. I had my most creative times using things that were outside of the rules instead of always creating stuff with in the rules.

I actually enjoyed THACO and I also enjoyed the fact that Mages had a chance to actually fail when learning new spells. I also miss the atmosphere that was around 2nd edition. I believe gaming was at it's height and the material coming out seemed endless. Every issue of Dragon was something I looked forward to.

 

[JonnyP71]

I miss 1E more than 2E - though I loved both.

I loved the flowery Gygax prose, the ridiculous amount of fluff, the cheesy artwork. I had the to hit tables(later THACO) committed to memory - THACO was a piece of cake! As others have said, I also liked the clearly defined classes, with separate and distinct skills. I liked racial limitations, both in terms of stats and classes. I preferred 1E/2E multiclassing rules. The vast array of interesting magical items, the huge variety of spells and effects. Specialist wizards (and cleric domains) were a great progression. Screw political correctness, it was realistic that female characters would have a lower maximum strength than male characters. I miss the wonky stat bonuses, the vast array of polearms which nobody used, but which fed my imagination as I had no idea what most of them actually looked like(until UA)!

But most of all, I miss the old modules. They were a real boon to a teenage DM who lacked the patience and organisational skills to homebrew consistently well. They were affordable, usually interesting, and much more user-friendly than the big hardbacks they put out nowadays. Yes, the standard dropped generally after 83/84, but they was enough goodness released between 75 and 83 to keep our campaigns going for many years.

5E is brilliant, it's so easy to work with, and it has been great for a group of newcomers to the hobby who I DM for on a weekly basis. I run a heavily improvised campaign, loosely based on old plot lines I take from some of the old modules, and the simple robustness of the mechanics really install me with confidence as a DM, because I can decide so much on the fly without fear of breaking something.

But the session which proved most memorable for that new group, most of whom have been gaming for less than a year, was a one-shot 1E Tomb of Horrors. It brought them out of their shells, and taught them to look beyond the visible skills on their character sheets. That was the real beauty of 1E and 2E.