What is meant by saying that in 4e "Everything is core"?

[pemerton]

I think the major effect this has in practice is that you will see supplemental material refering to other supplemental material. So,Arcane Power will have supplemental material (powers, feats, paragon pathes, variant class abilities) for the Swordmage, even though the Swordmage was only in a Forgotten Realms specific book.

Provided the cross-references aren't so extensive as to swamp the book, this sounds like a good thing.

Certainly there is a certain change in the way the campaign books work in that most or even all of the material is designed to be usable in different campaigns. So even someone playing only Eberron or a Homebrew campaign will find rules stuff in the Players Guide to Forgotten Realm or Dark Sun that he find useful (and compatible).

I also like this. I didn't get the FRPG because I have any interest in the Forgotten Realms. I just wanted rules material.

It seems WotC is taking the route to say "everything is core" as there is no more optional material

What I'm trying to work out is what is meant by saying that WoTC have taken this route, given that the books I mentioned are labelled "Supplement" and not "Core".

It's referring to the fact that everyyear there will be a new PHB and DMG and MM. The others are, as you say, "officially" supplements.

OK.

Were the PHB2 and DMG2 labelled "core" or "supplement" in 3E? I've never looked at them.

I think the MM2 was regarded as core in 1st ed AD&D. Certainly we treated it that way when it came out.

I'm still not really feeling the force of the issue.

 

[justanobody]

What I'm trying to work out is what is meant by saying that WoTC have taken this route, given that the books I mentioned are labelled "Supplement" and not "Core".

Only the person that came up with the idea and concept may know, as WotC has dodged the question most times when asked from what I can tell.

So even though the book says supplement it is part of the core. Maybe meaning officially made by WotC rather than licensed to MWP as DragonLance was or something.

The only other thing I got to answer with is the above which is my speculation and strongest feeling about the issue, but is an opinion rather than a definition.

 

[I'm A Banana]

What I'm trying to work out is what is meant by saying that WoTC have taken this route, given that the books I mentioned are labelled "Supplement" and not "Core".

To me, it seems to be a longevity strategy first and foremost.

Here's a bit of history:

In 2e, there was an epidemic of cross-referencing as something of a sales strategy. Any given book would reference 2-4 other books that you would need to make that book "complete." It might not be a major mention, and you might be able to get away without that other book, but the implication was unless you had this other book, the book you are currently reading isn't the best value.

That kind of irked people in a "this isn't a complete product" sense. And, in many ways, it helped exacerbate the "setting split" problem: someone who bought Dark Sun wouldn't buy Forgotten Realms because if he bought one FR book, he'd need to buy the whole collection, and all the while, he was buying the whole collection of DS books...

So 3e came along with the idea that every book after the first three would be a "complete product." You wouldn't have to own any book other than the first three in order to use anything from any other book. The first three were "core" in that respect.

This was refreshing at first, but it became a bit limiting. It became a little liberated by an expanded SRD including psionics and god rules and the like. By the end of 3e, it had basically been abandoned, in part probably to experiment about the outrage it might generate in 4e.

So 4e comes along and basically tries for a middle ground between 2e's "you need everything!" and 3e's "you only need three things!" They try this for the same reason 2e did (to sell more books) and for the same reason 3e eventually did (to supplement the supplements).

It has the same problems as 2e, ultimately. They might end up being less onerous, but it still gives you the feeling that your game isn't complete, that you need more stuff, and that you can't be satisfied until you have a total set.

If it's less onerous, it might end up coming beneath the threshold for most collectors' binary switches, but it might still be too much. We'll see that with how fast 5e gets here. If it's closer to 6 years, the strategy didn't work as well as it maybe should've, and we'll see something different in 5e (perhaps a "one book per year" core, or a return to the "3 book core"). If it's closer to 10 years, the strategy probably worked OK, and 5e will follow something similar.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

Supplements are supplements to the core rules, making them core. Everything is core means everything is part of the mechanics of the game. There won't be Forgotten Realms Swordmages, Eberron Spellswords, PHB III Duskblades and Arcane Power Eldritch Knights with options that could fit any of them but are only allowed for one becuase the options are class specific. There will just be Swordmages and/or Swordmage options everywhere, infecting every part of the game. It is like Borg. Just with magic and swords.

Unless of course you're going to buy power cards, then it is 10 bucks for core power cards for each class and another 10 bucks for the supplemental power cards for each class. It is like Ferengi. Just with dollars and cents.

 

[Paul_Klein]

People keep saying every year we'll get a new PHB, DMG and MM. Surely, in 2010 there won't be a PHB III and DMG III, will there? PHB IV and DMG IV in 2011?

 

[FireLance]

So 4e comes along and basically tries for a middle ground between 2e's "you need everything!" and 3e's "you only need three things!" They try this for the same reason 2e did (to sell more books) and for the same reason 3e eventually did (to supplement the supplements).

I'd say that 4e's "middle ground" is that you only need one thing: a DDI subscription.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

People keep saying every year we'll get a new PHB, DMG and MM. Surely, in 2010 there won't be a PHB III and DMG III, will there? PHB IV and DMG IV in 2011?

That's the idea.

There say they have 8 sources they'll be working out. If they do roughly two sources per year we should be looking at 4 sets of books.

This first year we had three (Arcane, Divine, & Martial) but for Core II they're only introducing one source and revisiting two from Core I (Arcane, Divine, & Primordial).

Presumably for Core III we'll just get two straight out say Ki and Shadow or they'll repeat the pattern and do Ki, Shadow, and Psionic with Ki, Shadow, and Elemental appearing in Core IV or some such.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

People keep saying every year we'll get a new PHB, DMG and MM. Surely, in 2010 there won't be a PHB III and DMG III, will there? PHB IV and DMG IV in 2011?

That is the plan, and I can definitely see this easily working for PHB and MM. INteresting question is what will the DMGs hold for us?!

 

[Runestar]

I still don't get it.

So is this statement meant to be nothing more than a marketing gimmick, or a game design goal?

Material should be allowed/banned based solely on whether they are balanced/broken or whether they fit in your campaign setting or not, and not simply because they are printed in a core rulebook or in an "optional" splatbook.

Take for instance the MM races. IMO, they would ideally be allowed/disallowed depending on whether they upset game balance or not, and not simply because of some inane disclaimer in the MM about them being apt only for npc use.

So which is what now?

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, as a DM you always have the option to say 'No.' That's never been taken away, and if it were, you could say 'No' to that option.

The way the new edition is... well let's look at the Dragonomicon.

There's a ton of material in there on Dragons, that can fit into pretty much any campaign setting that deems it appropriate. But it also includes specific material based on specific campaign setting.

The Forgotten Realms setting books include lots of material on the setting itself, but it's presented in a 'Look, if you need a magic kingdom of magicians, why not look at this for inspiration? Hey, here's some ideas on how to include Thay!' sort of way. It isn't just the crunch, the fluff bits as well are presented with the attitude that 'Look, pal, I know you might not want to run the Forgotten Realms, but there just might be something in here you like, so why not just use it, you handsome stallion?'

That's what it means by 'everything is core', that everything is created with the mindset that it can be used anywhere else with little weedling involved. Everything can be appropriate for any setting. It's not like second edition where material balanced for Forgotten Realms would be a different animal than what Dark Sun'd use. There's less learning completely new gaming rules and systems for each campaign setting, thus making the whole more modular.