What is Meta-gaming anyways?

[Desdichado]

Apologies, it's been a long day and I tend to get a little prickly about terminology at the best of times, I didn't mean to sound so arrogant about it all.

LOL, I know the feeling. My wife is constantly on my case for being too pedantic and literal. And lately all my days are much too long. Anyway, I didn't mean to come across as if I was offended or insulted -- I was just disagreeing friendly-like.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

If you take a second look at what I wrote, I didn't say one level of meta-gaming is superior to another. I did say that:

"...its one of the most destructive things that can happen when other people at the table are trying to stay in character and role-play."

That is, if the other players are trying not to meta-game and stay in character, and one or two players are meta-gaming, it quickly destroys the mood and pacing of a game. It all depends on the group though- some groups are more comfortable with it than others.

I on the otherhand find it disruptive to my enjoyment of the game when others are staying in character at all times except to say "you don't know that" when I reasonablely believe that my character would. Or staying in character and passing on the social asspects of spending time with your friends.

The moral of the story is to game in a way that everyone is having fun with.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Brown Jenkin:

The moral of the story is to game in a way that everyone is having fun with.

Yep, exactly- thats the bottom line when it comes down to it.

 

[Kweezil]

LOL, I know the feeling. My wife is constantly on my case for being too pedantic and literal. And lately all my days are much too long. Anyway, I didn't mean to come across as if I was offended or insulted -- I was just disagreeing friendly-like.

Thanks for understanding.

Oops, better stop this thread-jack before anyone catches it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, metagaming is using the knowledge that you are playing a game to help you in the game. Which can include OOC knowledge being used IC.

The monster thing I can only say is (a) "Know what your Players Know", so that you can twist what they expect, and (b) "This is My Campaign!", so that if trolls in your campaign are big and ugly and turn into stone in daylight instead of being big and green and regenerative, that's fine, and players shouldn't expect their mosnter knowledge to come in handy.

It's not automatically bad, or an insult. EVERYONE metagames...most DM's are the worst of the bunch ("I know Billy the Fighter has a low Will save...let's put an enchantress HERE!"), but to some extent it's encouraged in DMing. When a player metagames, it can be a sort of barrier-breaking experience, taking people out of the world of the game. It's not even (usually) so bad. But it's one of those things (kinda like OOC talk in general) that should be curbed a bit, but not forbidden.

 

[tonym]

Everyone with experience in the game system will meta-game to some degree, its simply unavoidable. The key to it is to decide how much your group is comfortable with, then try to keep it to that minimum.

There's a Player in the D&D group I'm playing with who believes roleplayers should ROLE-play. And he's a great roleplayer, I'm tellin' ya. For example, he speaks for his two characters using different voices, and will sometimes mime-out his characters' actions.

And even HE meta-games a bit!

So, yeh, Gothmog, I too believe metagaming is unavoidable.

[Especially when divvying-up treasure! Ha!]


Tony M

 

[hong]

I've never heard of metagaming being an insult, like you say. I'm surprised at the initial post in the thread that asserts that it is.

I've seen enough posts that describe metagaming using examples that are either completely innocuous, or on the border between player and character knowledge, to conclude that the people who use the word mostly tend to be heavily storyteller-oriented gamers, usually DMs. As such, it's unavoidable that an element of disdain is going to creep in.


Hong "I can't be prejudiced; some of my best friends are control freak DMs" Ooi

 

[S'mon]

I have to say that 3e D&D as a game seems to encourage metagaming, with its emphasis on min-max play. The Prestige Class system requires you to build a character who will meet the qualifications for the desired PrC several levels later. That seems like a metagaming requirement to me. 3e also encourages - indeed, assumes, 'scenario design' - adventures tailored to the abilities of the PCs - rather than 'world/environment design' - objective creation without regard for the ability of the PCs, but usually incorporating different areas with a range of threat levels.

 

[Felon]

To all you ENWorlders out there:
1. What is meta-gaming to you?
2. Is it all that bad?
3. Should we try to stop using it as an insult?

"Meta-gaming" is basically being too smart for the DM's own good.

You know how you go to a stupid movie and watch all the stupid characters doing stupid, irrational, predictable things that stupid characters in a thousand other stupid movies have done, and you think "why don't these guys ever wise up and take the intelligent, efficient course of action?" Well, the DM who accuses you of meta-gaming is usually mad that you're not making things easy for him by behaving like one of those brainless clowns.

 

[Fenes 2]

Re: Re: What is Meta-gaming anyways?

"Meta-gaming" is basically being too smart for the DM's own good.

You know how you go to a stupid movie and watch all the stupid characters doing stupid, irrational, predictable things that stupid characters in a thousand other stupid movies have done, and you think "why don't these guys ever wise up and take the intelligent, efficient course of action?" Well, the DM who accuses you of meta-gaming is usually mad that you're not making things easy for him by behaving like one of those brainless clowns.

This could only apply if you play "DM against players". Nothing wrong with it, but it is not my cup of tea. I will neither play in such a game, nor DM it - I have better uses for my time and creativity than to spend it in an arms&tactics race against my players.

IMHO metagaming is using OOC knowledge, be it game mechanics, stats or general knowledge, instead of character knowledge to make your character's decisions. I also include using "player experience" instead of character experience in my definition of metagaming - I don't think that players should "learn lessons from TPKs" and apply them to the next batch of 1st level PCs.