D&D General What is the appeal of Tolkien fantasy races?

[TheSword]

Perhap

nope

D&D was born out of roleplaying the special units of a wargame.
It would have still happened without Tolkien. D&D would just look very different

Perhaps, perhaps not. Who’s to say.

Nonetheless, there is a reason that Dwarves, Elves, Halflings etc are part of the general awareness of society.

Perhaps catfolk and teenage mutant ninja turtles would have inspired a similar breadth of influences. I suspect not. Though as it’s all hypothetical that is just my gut feeling.

 

[Minigiant]

Perhap


Perhaps, perhaps not. Who’s to say.

Nonetheless, there is a reason that Dwarves, Elves, Halflings etc are part of the general awareness of society.

Perhaps catfolk and teenage mutant ninja turtles would have inspired a similar breadth of influences. I suspect not. Though as it’s all hypothetical that is just my gut feeling.

It's litterally just race options.
D&D would have still happened as a offshot of Chainmail.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You’re saying that Terry Pratchet, Terry Brooks, Walt Disney, CS Lewis, Andrzej Sapkowski and a dozen others got their inspiration from D&D rather than Tolkein. I think not. D&D is derived from these works. It doesn’t inspire them.

Brooks and Pratchett where inspired by D&D, Sapkowski denies it, but none of them where published when D&D was created; Disney's dwarves (1937) have no connection to D&D or Tolkien; and Tolkien's buddy CS Lewis is full of all the so called "weird" races: satyrs, fauns, dryads, centaurs, minotaurs, giants, marsh wriggles*, anthropomorphic animals of all kinds, and no elves.


*something like a bullywug.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is not what I'm saying.

I'm saying the popularity of elves, dwarves, and halflings come from Tolkien not mythology.

If elf and dwarf popularity came from mythology, there were many more popular mythological races and creatures at the time and the time after that would have easily taken the place of elves and dwarves.

If Tolkien didn't exist, Aesir, Minotaur, and Catfolk would be core races in D&D.

Yep. And elves and dwarves, but they’d be pretty different.

 

[TheSword]

Brooks and Pratchett where inspired by D&D, Sapkowski denies it, but none of them where published when D&D was created; Disney's dwarves (1937) have no connection to D&D or Tolkien; and Tolkien's buddy CS Lewis is full of all the so called "weird" races: satyrs, fauns, dryads, centaurs, minotaurs, giants, marsh wriggles*, anthropomorphic animals of all kinds, and no elves.


*something like a bullywug.

Is that just your opinion or do you facts to back up your assertion that Terry Pratchett wrote his books inspired by dungeons and dragons?

 

[Accaris]

They're personifications of human traits which real humans are reluctant to acknowledge. So by playing as one, you can represent some aspect of humanity that you normally wouldn't, without feeling guilty about it. Human haughtiness, a focus on superficial beauty, hubris, superiority, and a desire to live forever? Play an elf. Human combativeness, stubbornness, greed, masculinity, and brawn? Play a dwarf.

It's the same reason why zombies are so popular. Zombies represent the common fantasy of killing people without consequence; it's a cathartic experience. Playing elves and dwarves is cathartic. They exemplify aspects of humanity that we're too ashamed to represent otherwise.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is that just your opinion or do you facts to back up your assertion that Terry Pratchett wrote his books inspired by dungeons and dragons?

Pratchett's works are parodies, it's pretty obvious when he is parodying D&D.

Can you back up you assertion that D&D (created1974) was influenced by Pratchett (The Colour of Magic published 1983)? If so, can you explain how your time machine works?

 

[TheSword]

Pratchett's works are parodies, it's pretty obvious when he is parodying D&D.

Can you back up you assertion that D&D (created1974) was influenced by Pratchett (The Colour of Magic published 1983)? If so, can you explain how your time machine works?

Pratchett is part of the common body of fantasy fiction that features Tolkeinesq dwarves. I didn’t say the writers of d&d took direct inspiration.

Also as D&D is derivative, how do you know Pratchett isn’t parodying the original fiction rather than D&D. How much of D&D that is well known is actually original? Not very much... beholders?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Pratchett is part of the common body of fantasy fiction that features Tolkeinesq dwarves. I didn’t say the writers of d&d took direct inspiration.

Also as D&D is derivative, how do you know Pratchett isn’t parodying the original fiction rather than D&D.

He does that as well, he was very widely read. The first discworld novel parodies Howard, Lieber, Lovecraft and Anne McCaffrey; but his dwarves owe more to the Forgotten Realms than they do to Tolkien.

 

[aramis erak]

I'll admit I'm a new school D&D player/DM. I've never discounted a player idea in osr or 5e, but I still wonder. Dwarves, elves, halflings... and so on.

Why do people chose these races?

To me, elves and dwarves are just humans with some tokrm magic element. Turtle people, and cat people and demon people and dragon people seem like a fun experience. Why playa dwarf and not a mountain dwelling human miner? Why wood elves and not tribal forest dwelling humans? Wealthy human wizards instead of high elves? I mean are humans even relevant in D&D anymore?

Is it a role-playing thing, or just a ability bonus power-up thing? I don't think I've ever ran a group that had a single human in it.

Tolkien built his humanoids to mix Celtic, Germanic, and Graeco-Roman mythologies into a new Mythology, all its own.

He succeeded. He hit mythic archetypes resonant to many cultures, but without the baggage of identifying the cultures.

Resonant to the various readers thanks to mythology - the reader's and the professor's.

It has become, thanks to the 1960's discovery of his compelling novels, and the movies and games derived from it, the default mythology.

For me, it's a chance to play something better than myself, with a standard that others can look at and say, "yeah, he's doing it right."