What is the attraction of Dragonlance?

Dúnadan said:
Despite my attempts to remain a lurker, this topic has forced me to comment. I never played in the actual setting and as such I am indifferent, but in my opinion, the first three (and only) Dragonlance books that I read were the epitome of dumbed-down, childish fantasty stories, with cliched characters, shoddy writing, and, at best, an amateurish attempt at world-building. Perhaps I'm missing the element that has spurned so many of you to love this series, so please enlighten me if this is indeed the case.

Amen. I tried (keyword: "tried") to read the first three DL novels (I'm assuming we're referring to the "Dragons of Summer Flame" series), and thought they read like a badly DM'ed D&D campaign that had been forced into novel format. Someone earlier said that the characters avoided the cliches, and I've gotta disagree there. Let's look at the cast (and I apologize for not remembering their names, it was a while back):

The wizard who has learned things he shouldn't, paid a terrible price for his power, and now refuses to act like a decent human being.

The halfling rogue who just can't keep his hands to himself.

The brooding warrior type.

The exiled princess (correct me if I'm wrong there, that detail is a bit sketchy in my memory).

The grouchy dwarf who complains about everything, but does it anyway.

The half-elf who's at odds with his dual heritage.

Hmmm...sounds pretty cliche to me, no?
 

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Okay...for Psion...before this grows out of hand, as it happens so easily...I didn´t mean to attack you, but when I hit "New Posts" on a thead where DL fans are asked why they like DL so much and get a post where a DL hater describes why he hates DL so much, my first thought is "That post doesn´t belong here". Maybe I´m wrong, but I still think so.
I don´t mind you not liking DL, as there probably are as many reasons not ot like is as there are to like it. No personal feelings involved either.

Sorry for taking this up here, and hopefully it´ll not create any further dissent. Peace, huh?

Wish we had PMs here...then I would have taken it there...sorry
Psion has posted here 544 times, and I don't know how many on the previous boards. You've posted here 18 times, several of which are just complaints on this thread. Don't go trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert on ettiquite for the enboards, and don't go passing off your opinion of said subject as authoritative.
 

Neowolf said:

Amen. I tried (keyword: "tried") to read the first three DL novels (I'm assuming we're referring to the "Dragons of Summer Flame" series), and thought they read like a badly DM'ed D&D campaign that had been forced into novel format. Someone earlier said that the characters avoided the cliches, and I've gotta disagree there.

To make everyone happy, I have opened a new thread on what people dislike about dragonlance here:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&postid=120732#post120732

now, no more post on board etiquette or dragonlance bashing, ok:p?

another thing that I liked: all dragon can morph in humanoid form, and some had a personality.
 


Joshua Dyal said:

Psion has posted here 544 times, and I don't know how many on the previous boards. You've posted here 18 times, several of which are just complaints on this thread. Don't go trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert on ettiquite for the enboards, and don't go passing off your opinion of said subject as authoritative.


Joshua, the guy was *apologising* and trying to get back to normal! You even included the quote from his post which says:

Sorry for taking this up here, and hopefully it´ll not create any further dissent. Peace, huh?

Please play nice. Number of posts doesn't mean that someone is great at etiquette all the time, nor does lack of them imply otherwise. Some inflammatory people post lots, after all.

Regards
 

Neowolf, For the record, the first three books were the Chronicles Series: Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, and Dragons of Spring Dawning. Dragons of Summer Flame was the beginning of the end IMO. I disliked it and all books that came after it.

As for the cliche's you mention, these were NOT cliche's at the time of the printing. (Approx. 1983). Therein lies the problem of judging books that were first (or even seconds) in their genre.

The wizard who has learned things he shouldn't, paid a terrible price for his power, and now refuses to act like a decent human being.

Raistlin, whom I recall no other wizard of this type - perhaps Heinlein?

The halfling rogue who just can't keep his hands to himself.

Even Bilbo Baggins did not share this trait. Kender such as Tasslehoff are more based on Children, than any fantasy character or type.

The brooding warrior type.
THe only brooder I recall was Tanis, and even then he had more in common with aragorn from Tolkien than anyone else.

The exiled princess (correct me if I'm wrong there, that detail is a bit sketchy in my memory).
Not exiled - Laurana followed Tanis Half-Elven like a love-starved Puppy, and experiences the most growth of all the characters in the tales.

The grouchy dwarf who complains about everything, but does it anyway.
Gimli, perhaps? unsure.

The half-elf who's at odds with his dual heritage.
I do not recall another of these from any stories before 1983.


If anyone has any concrete counter examples, I would appreciate them.
 

I enjoyed Dragonlance mainly because I was 12 or 13 when the first novel came out. It was probably the first novel I bought on my own, mainly because I was regularly playing D&D at the time, and the Larry Elmore cover art was so damn pretty (yes, I had a crush on Goldmoon). I was rather new to fantasy (I didn't read Tolkien until my college years), and I really cared for the DL characters.

I've read the first two trilogies, and a few short stories, but never read any of the novels not written by Weis and Hickman. I've thought about reading Dragons of Summer Flame, and the Weis and Hickman books following it, but have chosen not to. One of the main appeals that Dragonlance has for me is the nostalgia factor involved, of being 12 years old and reading about these characters going through a struggle but ultimately winning in the end. Call me old-fashioned, but I like the idea of Caramon and Tika and Tanis and Laurana and Riverwind and Goldmoon living happily ever after, and I'm satisfied to keep them that way in my mind.

So in a nutshell, I liked Dragonlance because I liked the characters. I've since found fantasy literature that I like a whole lot better (Tolkien, Martin, Moon, etc), but the memories of a 12 year old D&D-playing fantasy fan make Dragonlance a nice nostaligic memory for me. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Spoilers

First off to those that rag on Tasslehoff, he was my favorite character in the series. Sure, he may be seen to be just comic relief, but to me he seemed to have the most common sense at times. When he sees, "Hey, the world is being covered by the armies of darkness, and here everyone is sqaubling over who gets the dragon orb?" he just smashes the darn thing. I actually cried while reading Summer Flame when he died (well, I thought he did at the time).

Basically, you go through every character and show they break their sterotype, and have real personality.

Next, yes, DL did suffer from having, well, to many books written too quickly, and some not the crowning achievents of fantasy writing (allthough the same can be said for FR). However, here are some good ones that Weiss and Hickman didn't write:

Legend of Huma (et al) by Richard A Knaak. Awesome story, and I love the description of minotaurs. They're not just maze dwelling monsters, kids!

Weasels Luck by Michael Williams. Sure, it takes a bit to get into, but it's one of the really good examples of legends and poetry influencing a story. Oh, yeah, it's also an example of a story that was done outside of the "major" story arc

Knight of the Black Rose by James Lowder. Yeah, I know, it's a Ravenloft novel, but Soth is comming back, right?

Heh, one last thing, if you couldn't tell, I'd be really interested in DL D20 :D
 

I am glad someone pointed out that the "cliches`" present in the Dragonlance books became cliche`s BECAUSE of Dragonlance. There were no half elves torn between their heritages before it. Before DL half elves were Elrond. That being said, I'm tired now of all half elves being shunned and tormented, I want more Elrond type noble best of both worlds half elves.

I enjoyed the Chronicles, but wouldn't want to play in Krynn unless there is more world information. Everything I have ever seen is Solamnic Knights, kender, and tinker gnomes. I HATE tinker gnomes.

In my opinion the Chronicles were a fun read, but a bit childish. Now the Legends, those were good books. They got into archetypal themes of strong brother vs weak brother, envy, love and hate, and created one of the most enduring fantasy characters I have ever read about, Raistlin. Good books create characters and situations that cross between genre and style, and the Legends did that.

[edit: I loved Knight of the Black Rose too!]
 
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Please play nice. Number of posts doesn't mean that someone is great at etiquette all the time, nor does lack of them imply otherwise. Some inflammatory people post lots, after all.
I realise that. I wasn't posting what I said in an attempt to "not play nice," merely to point out that for someone who is a newcomer shouldn't be imposing ettiquite on the boards. The ettiquite of the boards is an old, established tradition already. I've been told many times that my "internet tone" is fairly harsh, but believe it or not, I was trying to be helpful! :)
 

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