What is the morality of this situation?

[the Jester]

Or perhaps it's time for the commander to make a pact with the devil. "For the greater good," he says as he begins to slide down the slippery slope...

Hehe... I like this, and I also like the idea of the devils having the prismatic bomb.

Unforseen consequences like these are what a good long-term campaign is made of!

 

[seasong]

Actually, Takyris, the one who sounds like they are sliding in alignment is the commander...

His method of fixing the problem sounds suspiciously like your hypothetical LE knights!

 

[mroberon1972]

takyris, that is the most distubingly true rendition of a knight I have ever heard. You have got to get together with Mistress Nox about her Dargorian knight and trade stories.

Mr. Oberon
"The innkeeper implied I was a thief. I am not. I am a soldier, so I killed him."

 

[el-remmen]

This may be a dumb question, but - why do you care about alignment so much as to have a grade for it?

More and more alignment has struck me as an artificiality I can do without (still haven't abandoned it completely though) - so seeing your post I thought - maybe Tacky can convince me to keep it - he seems to use it "strictly".

So sock it to me, baby!

BTW, I think you have a limited view of Chaotic Good - think his choice was more based his own "personal" view of what it means to be a "good" guy - thus sticking to the individualist theme of the chaotic alignments.

 

[el-remmen]

bump?

 

[kkoie]

I agree in that I think if anyone should slide a bit alignment wise, it would be the commander. The PC's, if they get any sort of alignment change, would be a slide towards good. In that their actions reflected good. It sounds like it was a really good rping session you had there.

BTW I like your LE god and those Knights of his... very ruthless SOBs.

 

[takyris]

This may be a dumb question, but - why do you care about alignment so much as to have a grade for it?

Wow -- this thread went a long ways before I remembered to hunt for it. Heh.

I like having a grade because, for better or for worse, unless you alter the rules quite a bit, D&D uses alignment for more than just roleplaying. Alignment controls whether or not a cleric gets access to his deity, whether some classes can continue progression (or even keep their abilities), and whether some magical items and spells are going to stun, damage, or kill the person they hit.

Because of this, I don't want to just arbitrarily say, "Hey, you're now Neutral. Yeah, sorry, you've been sliding. The next time your lifelong friend the cleric does a Holy Word, you're gonna be deafened." I want the players to know what their PC looks like in my eyes, if for no other reason than so that they can argue the point with me before it's an immediate problem.

For example, I like being able to tell the Holy Liberator in the party, "Yeah, you're good, but you ain't REAL good. You're at 75 right now, the absolute middle of "Good." As a relative of the paladin, I'd like to see you at 80 or above. You're not losing abilities yet, but if you slide any farther, you'll be making saves without adding your Charisma."

As far as the varied uses of Chaotic Good, I decided to go with group opinion in not having there be any repercussions for the sorcerer who opted to not stop his former commander for blowing up the LE town. While I personally found the idea repugnant and tragic (in the sense of the commander's hatred getting the better of him as he becomes willing to kill innocent villagers to take out the LE aristocracy), I suppose that two CG people can have equally valid but wildly divergent paths in how to respond.

I agree that alignment is an artificiality. Trying to play a LE town as loyal and honorable has been a royal pain, given that with regard to spells, D&D makes no distinction between "Driven by anger and the thirst for revenge into th darker paths, while still protecting the innocent" and "Consorts with demons to raise a bunch of ghouls and conquer the world." If I were to design an RPG and it used alignment or some other moral compass for the purpose of "Only the pure of heart may pass" or some other testable overt effect, I'd show a difference between the two types of evil.

For all that, though, I'm not ready to take it out of my D&D games. There is something mythical about moral absolutes, and I like the idea of my campaign's PCs coming to grips with the mythical -- even if it means being saddened when one of their friends can't use that sword because his heart isn't pure, despite his friendship and loyalty to them.

-Tacky

 

[Breakstone]

Actually, Taky, that's really cool. While it wouldn't really work for my sort of campaign (I feel that alignment is more of a background issue, and really I don't worry about it unless they go about killing folks, or following the law to its fullest extent), I can see it works wonders for your campaign, which deals with more evolving characteristics.

I think keeping track of that sort of stuff is a sign of a good DM, even if you're not using a number system.