What is THE NEXT BIG THING?

[Frostmarrow]

#1 (Red Box): Jungle & Volcano-Temple theme (Kobolds, Lizard Men, Dinosaurs, Dragons, Fire Elementals etc.)...Isle of Dread?

#2 (Blue Box): Swamp & Sunken Caverns theme (Aberrations, Mind Flayers, Beholder, Water Elementals etc.)

#3 (Green Box): Forest & Tower theme (Tendriculos, Orcs, Ogres, Owlbear, Green Dragon etc.)

#4 (Black Box): Ruins & Tomb theme (Skeletons, Vampires, Zombie Dragon, Lich etc.)...Tomb of Horrors?

#5 (White Box): Glacier & Castle theme (Winter Wolves, Yeti, Rhemorhaz, Frost Giants, Ice Elemental etc.)

#6 (Gold Box): Desert & Pyramid theme (Blue Dragon, Mummies, Sphinx, Djinni, etc.)...Desert of Desolation?

Anyway, you get the idea.

[snip]

Any thoughts?

Make all the boxes white and randomize the theme content! That way even the less popular themes will get sold.

 

[delericho]

Any thoughts?

Just one: there's no way I'd pay for something like that. Others might.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi MoogleEmpMog!

The basic concept is excellent. The $60 price point is not.

Well I just took a look at the board games in the major catalogue here in the UK...Argos.

Trivial Pursuit = £29.99 thats about $56 dollars by todays exchange rate. Now admittedly that was the most expensive board game, most were £15, £20, £25. Classic monopoly was £11.18, while Simpsons themed Monopoly was £24.93.

By pricing it so high, you're basically relegating it to game and hobby stores, and the end result would be lower sales and lower profits than if you were to sell it for $40 ($25 or $30 for supplementary sets) in toy stores.

One possibility might be to have three sets per theme instead of the two I was suggesting.

Low Level Box $40, Mid Level Box $40, High-level Box $40.

Instead of 6 boards in the first, maybe drop that down to 4.

Looking at the components involved, you have:

Miniatures. Assume plastic prepainted minis, ala D&D Minis. Now let's say you have two starter sets worth - that's about 24 minis (6 PCs, 1 boss, 17 mooks of various types?). In D&D Minis terms, only the boss monster would be a rare; the mooks and PCs would be commons and uncommons anyway. Also, they'd all be the same miniatures, so you could do this cheaper than two actual starters.

I don't mind the same miniatures for mooks, but I think you should have a bit of variety, with perhaps 1-2 Large and maybe 1 Huge (or almost Huge) mini as a showcase piece.

They could use existing D&D minis for this.

Lets say 23 minis per box (20 medium or smaller, 2 large, 1 huge), ceiling price point $39.95

Box #1 (Low Level/Fire theme): Could have maybe:

4 PCs
Renegade Warlock
Lord of Blades
Kobold Monk
Lizardman Cleric

4 kobold warriors
4 lizardmen warriors

Basilisk
Salamander
Spectre
Assassin Vine

Fiendish Girallon or Blackscale Lizardman
Large Red Dragon
Huge Fire Elemental (boss - showcase piece) or Fiendish T-Rex

Books. The books shouldn't cost too much to print; it's in a box, the rules short be short and simple, so you don't have to do a hardcover. Author costs are going to be negligible on any mass-market product. Probably two booklets should do it, one for the rules and one for the included adventure, neither significantly longer than the booklet that comes with every D&D Minis starter.

Agreed.

A board. I have no idea how much a nice board costs.

Me neither. But the D&D Basic Game has 4 double sided cards and 16 minis for $25 we would be adding 4 extra medium minis, 2 large and 1 huge for an extra $10-15.

Cards. Minor costs for a company that could do something on this scale.

Also by going for a lower price starter set you would drop the number of necessary cards dwon to less than 100.

Basically, the only thing that could push it out of the range of 'two D&D Minis starters' is the board.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Caudor!

Mixing D&D with card games? Yuck.

My idea would be to use cards as follows:

Instead of choosing a feat when they level up, players would gain the ability to choose a skill card (or spells for spellcasters), similarly with equipment/magic items. Now the difference here is that you are giving them something visceral.

The DM would have event cards, one of which could be turned and played each round, this might have good or bad effects upon the PCs.

So it would use cards, but not necessarily be a card game.

I pretty much like the game the way it is. What I don't like is the amount of preparation time needed for a few hours play.

Exactly, and this totally does away with it. This way you can set anything up in 5 minutes.

What could fix that? A descent electronic utility for gaming -- with sources. Don't get me wrong; I think using computer tools should be optional. I just want to use the power of computers to take much of the grunt work out of preparation. Keep the imagination, but cut down on the math.

The next big thing? Making the game much easier to prepare/play without dumbing it down.

I still think dumbing it down is the way to go to attract new players, casual gamers if you will. These people don't have the patience for the current rules. But if you give them something visceral then they might want to play "Heh, that looks cool."

But this simpler format doesn't mean you have to compromise on the roleplaying experience.

At some point in the evolution of the game, people have traded complexity for ease of use. But it doesn't make the game more fun, simply more complex. Therefore Occam's razor tells us which is better.

 

[philreed]

Hey guys!

Been think a little more about this, what about the full integration of the boardgame/miniatures/cards in a format not dissimilar to HeroQuest.

Instead of a Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and so forth they bring out a number of boxed sets loosely based on different themes.

Yes, definitely one way it has been done.http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/6366 Why it wasn't released in the US still confuses me.

 

[Upper_Krust]

That all sounds pretty nifty, actually. Although I could see a few less minis than what you're saying.

Possibly, I think as Moogle suggested 23-25 minis would give a good spread.

I think you need to stick to a theme (volcanic island), have a base villainous race (lizardmen) as the mooks, have a number of personalities (renegade warlock, lord of blades), a few monsters (basilisk, salamander), some foes that are not necessarily tied to the theme (spectre, assassin vine) and a few stand out (large) miniatures and one centrepiece (huge mini).

(Gotta keem em coming back for DDM boosters)

Of course, but you need to gve people something to get their teeth into.

What you describe is like HeroQuest on steroids. I like it.

Thats the basic inspiration.

Lets say you have a low, mid and high level boxed set per theme.

You could easily start with 10-12 geographical themes (volcanic island, drow undercaverns, ruined tomb, sunken caverns etc.), then have 10-12 planar themes (astral plane-githyanki ship, abyssal fortress, hellish prison, standing stones of limbo), then have 10-12 city based themes (tavern inn, thieves guild, city sewers, temple of the sun god etc.), then you have the setting themes (oriental adventures, al-qadim, maztica etc.).

You could bring out a 'risk type' version to decide battles.

The possibilities are virtually endless. But while every new boxed set may have new classes, spells and skills, the game itself won't need to become more complicated.

As far as it goes, I'd go along big time with this "Making the game much easier to prepare/play without dumbing it down." idea. But I personally wouldn't want it to hinge on needing to use a computer to accomplish. YMMV.

Thats certainly going to be a boon to current gamers, but I don't see it doing much to attract new gamers. The current game is too complicated for most would-be casual gamers. They can't simply pick up and play.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey delericho!

Just one: there's no way I'd pay for something like that. Others might.

Don't leave us hanging like that mate, tell us why wouldn't it appeal to you?

 

[delericho]

Don't leave us hanging like that mate, tell us why wouldn't it appeal to you?

I'm not sure. In principle I like the idea... as a starter set, or perhaps as an entirely different game.

But as the form of D&D? No way.

I'm probably just set in my ways, but I want my RPGs in hardback book form, with a minimum of extraneous components, and with the whole of the core ruleset available to buy in a single purchase. (When the PHB 3.0 came out, and we had to wait for a month for the DMG, that annoyed me too. By contrast, I had no problem with picking up the three 3.5 rulebooks.)

In the same way, I skipped both DDM and M:tG - it's not that I think they're bad games (I wouldn't know), or that I object to the random and/or collectable aspects. They just didn't particularly appeal to me.

Oh, I hope I didn't offend with my previous post. I initially had a longer response, but it was rather rambling, and didn't make much sense. So, I dropped most of it. But, on a re-read, it comes across as just rubbishing the idea out of hand, which wasn't my intention. Sorry.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi phil!

Yes, definitely one way it has been done.http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/6366 Why it wasn't released in the US still confuses me.

Thats it!

That looks bloody brilliant!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/browser.php?itemtype=image&sortby=recs&gameid=6366

Although in this day and age they could use painted plastic minis.

Look at the weapon and spell cards, fantastic stuff!

That should be the new D&D.

The only things to mention are...

1. They need to use pre-painted minis.

2. They need to add some scenery/wall sections in. Here is what it looks like when you add some of the HeroQuest architecture.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/79320

Just did a google search and found there was even an Ice themed expansion pack:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/39018

D&D Board Game Expansion : Eternal Winter
Add this to My Wish List

Price: £14.75

This Expansion Set Features:

- 6 new Level 3 adventures

- A 3D ice tower, adding an extra dimension to the gameplay

- A new Barbarian hero figure

- 8 new Monsters, including Ice Dragon

- Roaming Monsters, who materialise in the wilderness, hungry to attack

- Wintry weapons and spells -- and flight action!

The battle continues in the frozen winter wastelands. Here, vicious creatures roam the icy landscape, hunting for unprotected prey.

A new Hero - a mighty barbarian - has joined the faithful band in their quest to rescue a kidnapped Prince from the claws of a fierce and covetous dragon. The Prince, the last living soul to know the location of his ancient lost city, is held captive by the dragon in an attempt to force him to surrender his secret.

Can the Heroes defeat the evil dragon in this bitter, icy realm? Or will the beast prevail and pillage the legendary city of its unimaginable riches?

Are you brave enough to enter the icy wilderness of Dungeons & Dragons?

2 - 5 players, Age: 10 years & up

Its almost as if they had read my mind and went back in time.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi delericho!

I'm not sure. In principle I like the idea... as a starter set, or perhaps as an entirely different game.

But as the form of D&D? No way.

But thats the point. If you don't market it as 'the' D&D, then it probably won't be taken seriously.

I mean, phil reed just introduced me to the D&D Board Game, I'd either never seen it or maybe I had seen it and casually disregarded it as anything worthwhile.

I'm probably just set in my ways, but I want my RPGs in hardback book form,

So, different from the original D&D which was actually a boxed set!

with a minimum of extraneous components,

Hands up how many gamers here already use miniatures in their game - a large percentage I would imagine, and how many of those use a battle mat or similar to place them on.

Basically all we are adding really are some cards which just describe skills, magic items and spells - to save people from even having to write anything down.

and with the whole of the core ruleset available to buy in a single purchase. (When the PHB 3.0 came out, and we had to wait for a month for the DMG, that annoyed me too. By contrast, I had no problem with picking up the three 3.5 rulebooks.)

I don't see what you are saying here though? Is it about versatility?

In the same way, I skipped both DDM and M:tG - it's not that I think they're bad games (I wouldn't know), or that I object to the random and/or collectable aspects. They just didn't particularly appeal to me.

Never played M:tG myself and I don't even know what DDM is/are.

But I just want to stress that I don't see the game becoming card based, just that it would use cards as handy reminders, removing the need for paper and pencil, which is exactly the way they are used in the D&D Board Game.

Oh, I hope I didn't offend with my previous post.

Don't be daft mate, of course not!

I initially had a longer response, but it was rather rambling, and didn't make much sense. So, I dropped most of it. But, on a re-read, it comes across as just rubbishing the idea out of hand, which wasn't my intention. Sorry.

Thats okay, I'd have enjoyed arguing with you on the matter anyway.

Here is a review of the Board Game version of D&D:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9483.phtml