What is THE NEXT BIG THING?

[Rykion]

I believe that a combination of DDM and slightly more advanced party based rules could be big. A modular systme like Upper Krust has mentioned seems like a good idea. The modules should also include rules to incorporate other DDM into the game, to encourage people to buy the randomized boosters.

Yes, definitely one way it has been done.http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/6366 Why it wasn't released in the US still confuses me.

Yeah, it seems like a no brainer. Paizo had it and the expansions at Origins and Gen Con Indy so I picked them up.

 

[philreed]

Yeah, it seems like a no brainer. Paizo had it and the expansions at Origins and Gen Con Indy so I picked them up.

In my opinion, this is a better introduction to D&D then the Basic Set* of Player's Kit were.


* Note: I do not own the newest Basic Set so I'm not sure if it's an improvement over the last one. The 2004 Basic Set is actually not bad, I just feel this game better serves the purpose of introducing D&D to new players.

 

[GreatLemur]

But what happens if you don't want to play with electronic gizmos and machines that give you images instead of using your imagination? Pen and paper could still be played. Any good system would include an easy printout of character stats. DM notes and materials would alread be organized online for printout, if desired. I think the failure of E-Tools and the still poor utilization of computers in tabletop RPGs have really hidden a golden opportunity. Character builds are just the beginning. Peanuts really. Think about how much has shifted to computers over 30 years of gaming. Now think of how we use a logic system with over a 1000 pages of rules, one that's not automated on a computer for ease of use. That's just crazy.

I think you've got it, here. Remember how 2nd Ed. tried to give us a way to combine all our purchased monster sourcebooks with that whole 3-ring binder thing (and screwed it up by printing two monsters on the same page and ruining any attempts to alphabetize it all)? I'd like to see WotC give us a way to do that (and do it right) with all the monsters, races, classes, feats, spells, and whatever else we buy from them.

Maybe each book could come with a serial number or something that would give your account access to corresponding sections of a giant D&D encyclopedia site. So I buy the PHB, and the "base classes" section of the encyclopedia just has the usual Barbarian-through-Wizard list. But if I buy Complete Arcane, and enter the code that comes with it, now it also includes the Warlock, Warmage, and Wu Jen, all nicely alphabetized and in the same format. And the big class skills grid includes the new classes, too. And the spell section updates appropriately, so that the entry for Magic Missile now mentions that Warmages can cast it, too. And so on.

Obviously, the whole thing will update dynamically with errata and such. Maybe there could even be support for including material from third-party developers. And if you want to make changes, or add notes or houserules, you can edit the whole thing wiki-style . . . except that they're only visible in your version of the site.

Maybe it could even have some kind of campaign bible feature, where you indicate which materials you want to use for a specific game--picking and choosing races, prestige classes, house rules, etc. as you please--with a simple checklist interface, and the site will produce a mini-encyclopedia that you can give your players access to . . . only they don't get the full versions of the rules, just the summary-level info, unless of course they also own the revelvant sourcebooks.

Admittedly, a system like this is incredibly unlikely to happen simply because it would make piracy as simple as Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V (unless they did something extraordinarily annoying, like making it Flash-based), but I kinda feel like this general direction is inevitable. Give people a way to organize all the stuff they buy. Put the computers we already own to work, without actually requiring any hardware to play the game. A lot of us are already using wikis for our own games. It can't be a bad idea to tap into that movement and ride with it.

 

[delericho]

But thats the point. If you don't market it as 'the' D&D, then it probably won't be taken seriously.

I agree entirely. But I would prefer D&D to remain in the "three core rulebooks" model (or perhaps one book, if they can find some really clever way to make it fly).

So, different from the original D&D which was actually a boxed set!

Yep. I got into the game through the 'Red Box' Basic Set. I liked it very much then. But once I added the Expert and Companion sets, the whole thing became rather less convenient. I much prefer the divisions we currently have - books divided by role (Player/DM) rather than by level (1-3, 4-9, 10-15, 16 - 36... though I'm sure those are the wrong numbers.)

Hands up how many gamers here already use miniatures in their game - a large percentage I would imagine, and how many of those use a battle mat or similar to place them on.

True. (Personally, I use the battlemat with counters.) The thing is, though, how many people who currently use minis would find significant extra value in the 24 or so (mostly common) minis included in the new boxed set? They're inevitably going to have to be PCs and some of the most common creatures in the game, and so minis that most gamers will already have represented.

So, for the established gamer, I'm not seeing the value-add. For new gamers, I will agree that it's obvious.

Basically all we are adding really are some cards which just describe skills, magic items and spells - to save people from even having to write anything down.

Those are nice, and I would like to be able to buy big boxes of spell cards (including all PHB and SC spells, thanks), magic item cards (again, all of DMG and Magic Item Compendium), condition cards, equipment cards, and the like, at my FLGS. I would definately pick those up.

I don't see what you are saying here though? Is it about versatility?

That one's just about my shopping convenience. If the game is going to be 3 core rulebooks, or is going to be "Basic Set" + "High-level Expansion", I want to be able to go into the store and buy all the parts in one fell swoop. I don't want to wait a month between PHB 4.0 and DMG 4.0, or for some months between the boxes being released.

I'll readily accept that that's just me being awkward.

I don't even know what DDM is/are.

D&D minis.

But I just want to stress that I don't see the game becoming card based, just that it would use cards as handy reminders, removing the need for paper and pencil, which is exactly the way they are used in the D&D Board Game.

I think I hadn't quite grasped that. I still think I'd like the option to buy just the rulebooks, though. Odd quirk, that.

One other thing: Putting all this into a boxed set a la the D&D Board Game screams to be "vastly reduced ruleset!" Now, I'll not disagree that the rules for D&D are off-putting, and some simplification would be a very good thing. In fact, I've posted earlier in this thread that I feel the initial investment required by this game is way too high.

But there are limits to how simplified I would want things to go... with "Castles & Crusades" probably being my marker for 'just too far'. (For D&D, that is - again, personal preference talking here.)

So, that's one of the other things that puts me off the 'box it like a board game' idea.

Here is a review of the Board Game version of D&D:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9483.phtml

I saw it in my local FLGS, and thought it was a very good idea. I considered picking up a copy, but never did. However, it struck me as something to play when the group can't all make it, rather than the shape of the future.

I'll leave it to the jury of my peers to decide how much of that is entirely normal personal preference at work, and how much is just irrational prejudice.

 

[Rykion]

In my opinion, this is a better introduction to D&D then the Basic Set* of Player's Kit were.


* Note: I do not own the newest Basic Set so I'm not sure if it's an improvement over the last one. The 2004 Basic Set is actually not bad, I just feel this game better serves the purpose of introducing D&D to new players.

Just to be clear, the "no brainer" was that Hasbro should have released the D&D Boardgame in the US, not the boardgame itself.

The 2004 Basic Set really suffered from not having multiple adventure set-ups. There really wasn't much guidance on what to do after the first adventure except to go out and buy the core rules and D&DM. It really was a missed oppurtunity to create a gateway game that could probably sell well on its own. I haven't checked out the new Basic Set either.

 

[Nightfall]

Krusty,

Hey there Krusty mate! Howse life in the upper echelons of epic gaming going? I am wondering...when you're next release will be? Cause I LOVED the Epic Beastiary. So you man.

 

[Shadowslayer]

I haven't checked out the new Basic Set either.

Same thing, different minis and tiles. They prettied up the booklets, making one booklet per PC...and a different teeny-tiny adventure. Otherwise, the game's laid out the same as the first one.

 

[philreed]

Same thing, different minis and tiles. They prettied up the booklets, making one booklet per PC...and a different teeny-tiny adventure. Otherwise, the game's laid out the same as the first one.

So it's not any better than the first as an introduction to D&D and roleplaying?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi delericho!

I agree entirely. But I would prefer D&D to remain in the "three core rulebooks" model (or perhaps one book, if they can find some really clever way to make it fly).

Looking at the D&D Board Game, they actually include a 'Players Handbook' (ie. Rulebook) and 'Dungeon Masters Guide' (ie. Adventure Book) within.

Yep. I got into the game through the 'Red Box' Basic Set. I liked it very much then. But once I added the Expert and Companion sets, the whole thing became rather less convenient.

How much of those previous boxes did you need though to run you 'current' level?

I much prefer the divisions we currently have - books divided by role (Player/DM) rather than by level (1-3, 4-9, 10-15, 16 - 36... though I'm sure those are the wrong numbers.)

I think it was 1-3, 4-14, 15-25, 26-36, 36+

True. (Personally, I use the battlemat with counters.) The thing is, though, how many people who currently use minis would find significant extra value in the 24 or so (mostly common) minis included in the new boxed set? They're inevitably going to have to be PCs and some of the most common creatures in the game, and so minis that most gamers will already have represented.

Surely thats where the idea of multiple basic (environmentally themed) boxed sets comes it.

So if you already have lots of Orcs/Goblinoids, don't buy the Forest/Wizards Tower (Green) Boxed Set, instead go for one of the others.

So, for the established gamer, I'm not seeing the value-add. For new gamers, I will agree that it's obvious.

Well I still think if you have ten (lets say) different coloured and themed basic level boxed sets, you will have something for everyone.

Those are nice, and I would like to be able to buy big boxes of spell cards (including all PHB and SC spells, thanks), magic item cards (again, all of DMG and Magic Item Compendium), condition cards, equipment cards, and the like, at my FLGS. I would definately pick those up.

Yes the cards were great, weren't they!

That one's just about my shopping convenience. If the game is going to be 3 core rulebooks, or is going to be "Basic Set" + "High-level Expansion", I want to be able to go into the store and buy all the parts in one fell swoop. I don't want to wait a month between PHB 4.0 and DMG 4.0, or for some months between the boxes being released.

I'll readily accept that that's just me being awkward.

I think you have to stagger the releases.

But I am not sure exactly whether you should release all the basic packs first (fire dungeon, ice castle, sunken caverns) or release the three theme packs (low, mid, high-level fire dungeon) one at a time.

Maybe they could do a special introductory offer if you buy the low, mid and high-level boxed sets together. Individually they could all be $40, but buy all 3 for $100.

D&D minis.

Ah right, thanks for that.

I think I hadn't quite grasped that. I still think I'd like the option to buy just the rulebooks, though. Odd quirk, that.

One other thing: Putting all this into a boxed set a la the D&D Board Game screams to be "vastly reduced ruleset!" Now, I'll not disagree that the rules for D&D are off-putting, and some simplification would be a very good thing. In fact, I've posted earlier in this thread that I feel the initial investment required by this game is way too high.

But there are limits to how simplified I would want things to go... with "Castles & Crusades" probably being my marker for 'just too far'. (For D&D, that is - again, personal preference talking here.)

So, that's one of the other things that puts me off the 'box it like a board game' idea.

I dunno, I just like to have it boiled down to the essence of fun. I haven't played the D&D Board Game yet myself so I can't say how detailed it is, but reading between the lines it seems to remove the need for the micro-management of minutiae.

I saw it in my local FLGS, and thought it was a very good idea. I considered picking up a copy, but never did. However, it struck me as something to play when the group can't all make it, rather than the shape of the future.

I'll leave it to the jury of my peers to decide how much of that is entirely normal personal preference at work, and how much is just irrational prejudice.

Well I have read two reviews of it so far and both were very positive.

I think where it probably loses marks is in variety, but thats something which could be easily solved with a little imagination in the Adventure Book part with regards puzzle, play variations and event cards.

I just think it will be up to game designers to start thinking outside the box as to how to challenge gamers with this new format and still keep things fresh.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Krusty,

Hey there Krusty mate!

Howdy Nightfall dude!

Trust you have been keeping well matey!?

Howse life in the upper echelons of epic gaming going?

Slowly but surely.

I am wondering...when you're next release will be?

Hopefully (late) February for the Immortals Handbook: Ascension pdf.

I sort of bit off more than I could chew with the latest book (224 pages) but I am almost done. In future though I am sticking to 96 pages or less.

Cause I LOVED the Epic Beastiary.

Thanks for the kind words amigo.

So you man.

I assume you mean you are happy to see me?