What is the standard ability score set? Are most games playing too high?

[Crothian]

To be a hero you must do heroic things successfully. If you run into a burning building to save a baby and are burned to death three feet from the door, you aren't a hero. If you intervene on a mugging and are yourself beaten and mugged, you are not a hero. If you can't do anything well but are always trying to be heroic, then what you are is comic relief.

There are a lot of people that don't feel this way. For example many of the people on 9/11 that did run into a burning building and never came out are considered heroes. I'm not sure anyone found those people's death to be funny.

 

[Crothian]

As much as I enjoy the amusing stories from Crothianland, where the heroes are real heroes, the players hang on the DM's every word, everything is allowed and powergaming never happens, I find this particular poetic waxing is trite. Effectiveness is a key component of being a hero.

I'm sorry if my years of gaming have produced a game style that is fun and fair for me and my players. Actually, I'm not. I've worked hard and I've gone through many groups to find one that works this well. It sounds like from your post you don't have it and may be a little jealous as those of us who do. I can only speak of my own game experience and there is nothing trite about it.

 

[KB9JMQ]

Have never used the point-buy system. We have always used 4d6 DTL put in any order.
This to me is the optimum way to build the concept you want and still being unique.
I believe that we start a bit higher than the recommended average but I also think the characters who adventure are unique and bit above average in the first place.

 

[Desdichado]

I didn't mean to imply that players that frustrate me have all of those qualities: one is usually enough.

Well, it's entirely possible then that instead of worrying about players with entitlement issues, you should be worrying about DM's with entitlement and control issues.

 

[blargney the second]

In my experience, a higher point-buy causes most players to think about the "self" before the "group". A lower point-buy has almost always always caused them to be more concerned about encounters, and look for assistance from the group. It's promoted more tactical play than 'I'm the hero"

Interesting. We get better team play out of our 28-point group than the 32-point gestalt group.

Heh as the DM of the Gestalt game, I just bump up the ECL of the party by 2 when sorting out what monsters to throw at them I have to say tho, my 28 pt buy Archivist/Dread Necro is pretty damn fun to play.

It's true that encounters have felt much more on par since you started using that metric in the gestalt game - neither cake walks nor utter beatdowns.
-blarg

 

[JustKim]

There are a lot of people that don't feel this way. For example many of the people on 9/11 that did run into a burning building and never came out are considered heroes. I'm not sure anyone found those people's death to be funny.

That is poignant and I applaud your association of your opinion with a national tragedy. There is no way I can argue this without looking the ass, so I will counter that you smell like cabbage.

I'm sorry if my years of gaming have produced a game style that is fun and fair for me and my players. Actually, I'm not. I've worked hard and I've gone through many groups to find one that works this well. It sounds like from your post you don't have it and may be a little jealous as those of us who do. I can only speak of my own game experience and there is nothing trite about it.

I harbor such festering resentment and jealousy that I can scarcely operate in civilized society. It's all I can do to make witticisms like "Crothianland" and disagree with you on message boards.

I do wonder how you managed to play a no-modifier game and find it heroic. I mean, since you speak from experience, it must be true, but it's astonishing that you managed to work around the 75% failure rate associated with uncomplicated tasks and discover that twelve rounds of swinging weapons at three goblins is somehow heroic. I know that when we play a 1st level game with plenty of stat modifiers, it's still random as all get out, so I can only guess how having even less control over your abilities is more heroic. Truly Crothianland is a wondrous place and I seethe with jealousy. What small solace I can find in the fact that you must double post to express your outrage with me will have to suffice.

 

[Desdichado]

Removed by admin.

 

[Doug McCrae]

it seems like it only takes one guy who does 570 points of damage a round to wreck any level-headed thinking

You could try asking the players not to do that.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I just wanna play the game with some friends..I don't want to have to compete with the other players for power escalation and it seems like it only takes one guy who does 570 points of damage a round to wreck any level-headed thinking becasue the DM typically responds by throwing more/tougher monsters at the party which only PUNISHES PLAYERS WHO DON'T ESCALATE THEIR OWN POWER.
jh

Its a tough balancing act, regardless of stats. Feats, prestige classes etc. can all create these imbalances within a party.

Ideally a DM in this situation will, rather than just upping the power level, will try to use things like tactics to create challenges for everyone. If you just want to play with friends, talk the power player, talk to the DM, figure out a way to make it fun for everyone without having to join the arms race.

 

[Piratecat]

Justkim, do not post in this thread any longer. In addition, please reread the rules regarding arguments. Sarcasm is a pretty lousy way to get your point across.

Hobo, I've removed your post.

For everyone, no more bickering, please. It's a good thread, and we'd prefer not to close it.

- Piratecat