What is the standard ability score set? Are most games playing too high?

[Marnak]

I prefer a 28/29 point buy with humans getting 29 points and demihumans 28. The reason I vary the point buy is to give humans a bit of a boost and to compensate for the fact that I think a point buy system favors demihumans who can min/max the point buy. For example, 28 point buy fighter before racial ability modifiers might be: 16, 12, 16, 10, 10, 8. Dwarf would adjust these numbers to: 16, 12, 18, 10, 10, 6. So, I give the humans a 29 point buy, which I think works well.

 

[charlesatan]

My only qualm with a lack of "high" stats is that some classes are more dependent on them. I mean for most of the PHB classes, I'm fine with 25-points. When it comes to the Paladin and the Monk however, they really need good stats in a lot of attributes, even if it's just 14, 14, 14, 10, 14, 14 (not so evident at low-levels but becomes more pronounced at higher levels; only partially resolved by good magic items).

 

[BryonD]

I'm still left wondering why people have problems with Warforged as a LA 0 race, but see no problems in playing a 35 or 40 point character. I mean, a 35 or 40 point character is operating effectively at least one level and possibly two levels above what he should be. With no penalty for having a level adjustment.

Why is it ok for my 6th level fighter to act in pretty much all ways, except maybe a feat, as an 8th level fighter, but, Warforged and dwarves are just way overpowered?

Setting aside the specifics of warforged....

If all of the characters are the same point buy then they are pretty much balanced against each other. They may all be vastly "overpowered" compared to the threats they face, but they are still comparable to each other.

However, if one character is an overpowered race then the balance goes out the window.

A misplaced ECL isn't comparable to a higher point value for a campaign, it is comparable to having a single 40 point character in a game with three 28 point characters.

 

[Kestrel]

The main issue we had with rolling stats is the imbalance among players, if one rolled well and others rolled crappy. Nobody likes to be the kid getting sand kicked in his face.

 

[Crothian]

It's awfully hard to be heroic when you're a scrub who can't accomplish anything, either.

They can. It is harder and takes some good planning and perhaps the DM has to not want to kill them all at the first opportunity but it can work.

 

[just__al]

I went with 30 point buy for the LONGEST time. My latest 3 campaigns we went with 28 point buy. It's still plenty.

I also start campains at level 2 with 0xp so you need to garner 3000xp before becoming 3rd level. Characters also start with 450gp + starting gold (random by class per phb) for their level.

 

[el-remmen]

I have never liked point-buy system as I think it leads to cookie-cutter stats (and no one ever has anything below 10 most of the time).

When the wild variations in my old stat-rolling method proved too much in the way 3E handles stat modifiers (that is, in 1E/2E if one person had a 9 and another had a 14 in a stat the difference was not so huge) I instituted the stat draft for my next game. This allowed for variation, cooperative and/or competitive character creation, and let me decide the upper and lower limits of ability.

See this thread for how the draft worked out - not sure how it worked out point buy-wise - but if someone is interested and wants to do the math, knock yourself out.

 

[Desdichado]

Removed by admin.

Clearly I've been spending too much time away from ENWorld lately.

 

[Hussar]

They can. It is harder and takes some good planning and perhaps the DM has to not want to kill them all at the first opportunity but it can work.

But that's still ducking the issue. There's no getting around the fact that the higher point character is more effective. If the entire party is lower point, fine, that makes things fairly easy to adjust to - a 15 point party is probably around ECL-1.

But, what happens in the group where you have 1 15 point character and 1 40 point character? My players are pretty understanding, but, any threat I throw at the party is either going to be a cakewalk for the high guy or instant death for the low guy.

So, my option basically boils down to fudging the heck out of the dice to keep the wimpy guy alive. Because, while it's all well and good to talk about good planning and all that, eventually the lower point guy is going to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he dies a whole lot easier than the high point guy.

Like I said before, I've got no problem with any sort of chargen method. But, there should be some cognizance on the part of the DM that the point value of the party and the PC's making up that party have a fairly large effect on the game.

Simply blowing it off and then saying that low point characters just have to be smarter doesn't work. No one can be smart every time.

 

[molonel]

I'm still left wondering why people have problems with Warforged as a LA 0 race, but see no problems in playing a 35 or 40 point character. I mean, a 35 or 40 point character is operating effectively at least one level and possibly two levels above what he should be. With no penalty for having a level adjustment.

In one of our longterm campaigns I played with a guy who rolled 4 eighteens. Nevermind the fact that I find that players often, oddly, seem to roll lower when it's done in front of the DM. But let's take him at his word, and say it was honest 4d6 drop the lowest. His character was EASILY a +1 level adjustment above the rest of us. And he played a cleric, which meant that he was a better fighter than the fighter, especially spelled up, and everything he did - turn undead, saves, skills, combat, anything that involved a roll and involved his stats - he did better than everyone else.

I rolled my stats in front of the DM. I had a 12, and a 7 among my numbers. And yes, it most certainly made a difference.

The campaign lasted three years. The effects of those initial rolls were felt throughout the entire campaign.

I've done point buy ever since. I've found that there is still disparities between players, usually based on experience, but players can play what they want to play and everyone starts with the same building blocks.

They can. It is harder and takes some good planning and perhaps the DM has to not want to kill them all at the first opportunity but it can work.

D&D is a game where stats matter. I'm sorry, but this is just true. You can't just make a 10 Str Human and, through careful planning, make him as good in combat while wielding a plain wooden club as someone with an 18 Str and a greataxe. Spellcasters require a good stat in order to reach upper level spells. No amount of planning makes it otherwise. A low Dex rogue trying to Hide or Move Silently may provide some comic relief, but being effective is part and parcel of being heroic.