Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[TwoSix]

How are defining magic please?

I've fought this battle before, but I think the tendency to use "magical" as a synonym for any supernatural effect in a D&D-type fantasy is a bad habit. "Magical" should refer to the ability to cast spells, specifically. But magical spells are a subset of the total range of supernatural effects available in the genre. Hercules isn't magical, he's supernatural.

I certainly don't think a high-level fighter should be magical, but I have no problem with them being supernatural. But I'd rather see their supernatural tendencies support a narrative of inexorable. The high-level fighter simply never stops coming.

 

[FrogReaver]

I've fought this battle before, but I think the tendency to use "magical" as a synonym for any supernatural effect in a D&D-type fantasy is a bad habit. "Magical" should refer to the ability to cast spells, specifically. But magical spells are a subset of the total range of supernatural effects available in the genre. Hercules isn't magical, he's supernatural.

I certainly don't think a high-level fighter should be magical, but I have no problem with them being supernatural. But I'd rather see their supernatural tendencies support a narrative of inexorable. The high-level fighter simply never stops coming.

My list didn’t include supernatural separately. I think it’s pretty clear it was meant to be included in magical. I really don’t care what term we use for it. I’m just not sure why we are needing to equivocate over the definition. It doesn’t change anything that matters whether you define it as supernatural or magical.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I've fought this battle before, but I think the tendency to use "magical" as a synonym for any supernatural effect in a D&D-type fantasy is a bad habit. "Magical" should refer to the ability to cast spells, specifically. But magical spells are a subset of the total range of supernatural effects available in the genre. Hercules isn't magical, he's supernatural.

I certainly don't think a high-level fighter should be magical, but I have no problem with them being supernatural. But I'd rather see their supernatural tendencies support a narrative of inexorable. The high-level fighter simply never stops coming.

This is pretty much my view as well. The fighter's class features support the concept of the skilled hero that can push themselves beyond normal limits.
I'm happy with that. A high-level fighter is a supremely skilled martial artist and adventurer with occasional "flip a car off a trapped child, but at a legendary level" moments.

 

[TwoSix]

My list didn’t include supernatural separately. I think it’s pretty clear it was meant to be included in magical. I really don’t care what term we use for it. I’m just not sure why we are needing to equivocate over the definition. It doesn’t change anything that matters whether you define it as supernatural or magical.

Ehh, I'd argue that it matters somewhat. Like, I don't think that a high-level fighter should get a casting of wish or true polymorph by spending a fiat currency. I do think that some of the explicitly supernatural abilities from 4e epic destinies are perfectly fitting for a high-level fighter. (Once per day, when you die...)

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

These are effect that I could see a warrior landing on a enemy. Most of them have a physical component, so they could be more easily argued as non-magical.

As part of an attack, X/Rest
Frightened
Stunned
Paralyzed
Restrained
Speed reduction
Block healing (as seen in Chill Touch)
Delayed: Lose X initiative.

Rogues, if dealing with poisons, could have more exotic effects: poisoned, blind, weakened (half damage for the creature).

As an action, X/Rest.
Sunder Armor (as seen in the UA Mytic's earth mastery discipline)
Sunder Weapon (as seen in the UA Mytic's earth mastery discipline)
Massive Initiative bonus (as seen in the Mytic's Victory Before Battle power)
Increase critical range on a target for a round

Special
Charm/frightened when non-lethal defeat an enemy (as seen in the UA redemption paladin)

Most of them would probably be too magical for @FrogReaver, but my personal opinion is that those effect make sense for a high level fighter: to me these could be mundane, if particularly skilled, techniques.

 

[FrogReaver]

These are effect that I could see a warrior landing on a enemy. Most of them have a physical component, so they could be more easily argued as non-magical.

As part of an attack, X/Rest
Frightened
Stunned
Paralyzed
Restrained
Speed reduction
Block healing (as seen in Chill Touch)
Delayed: Lose X initiative.

Rogues, if dealing with poisons, could have more exotic effects: poisoned, blind, weakened (half damage for the creature).

As an action, X/Rest.
Sunder Armor (as seen in the UA Mytic's earth mastery discipline)
Sunder Weapon (as seen in the UA Mytic's earth mastery discipline)
Massive Initiative bonus (as seen in the Mytic's Victory Before Battle power)
Increase critical range on a target for a round

Special
Charm/frightened when non-lethal defeat an enemy (as seen in the UA redemption paladin)

Most of them would probably be too magical for @FrogReaver, but my personal opinion is that those effect make sense for a high level fighter: to me these could be mundane, if particularly skilled, techniques.

inhave no problem with stun or paralysis or restrain or slow as long as it’s on a blow.

frightened is more mental. That’s bordering magical IMO. Shouting to stun is even more magical IMO.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Shouting

Yeah no. Shouting for a semi-mystical effect should be reserved for the barbarian, since it already threads of the semi-magic line and shouts are already a big trope in more recent medias.

I'm also not that hot on ''frightened'' on a strike or social feature:
1) It makes the enemy flee you, which is kinda the opposite of a tank's job: stand your ground and let none survive to fight another day.
2) frightening as a social feature, in my mind, more or less ENDS a social interaction instead of aiding the fighter's roleplay pillar.

 

[Chaosmancer]

you act as if that fear effect on Battlemaster hit is accepted no issue.

You act as though there has ever been a complaint about it

I've fought this battle before, but I think the tendency to use "magical" as a synonym for any supernatural effect in a D&D-type fantasy is a bad habit. "Magical" should refer to the ability to cast spells, specifically. But magical spells are a subset of the total range of supernatural effects available in the genre. Hercules isn't magical, he's supernatural.

I certainly don't think a high-level fighter should be magical, but I have no problem with them being supernatural. But I'd rather see their supernatural tendencies support a narrative of inexorable. The high-level fighter simply never stops coming.

I tend to agree with this.

It is actually a big problem that I have with "Anti-magic" Zones. Are dragon's magical? By one definition. Are they supernatural? Definitely. Are they in any stopped by "anti-magic"? Nope.

Monk Ki, paladin auras, ect ect ect.

I think we would be well served to seperate "magic" from "supernatural"

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think if you present an effect as if it were a spell, you're going to have a hard time convincing people it isn't a spell.

 

[Garthanos]

Fighter self heals it's MAGICK oh noezzzzzz pardon 5e is not some pristine land of the people who trolled 4e won the entire game... sorry they didnt.