What is this die for? (Proficiency dice discussion)

[Xeviat]

This is lie if you stop enjoying rolling a d12 you might as well shred all you RPG books.

On a more serious note to the OP how do you deal with negative modifiers? Your idea is something I’ve thought about but never really liked for this reason? Subtracting a die roll seems to rub me the wrong way.

For 5E? I'd have to have a few red coins around for rolling 8s and 9s. Maaaaaybe just have a -1 so it doesn't feel as bad, though. If I was designing from the ground up, I'd have no negatives then have everything use d0 throug d12.

 

[CrimsonCarcharodon]

Personally, I'd leave the ability modifiers alone for simplicity's sake. The proficiency die, though, is a fun idea.

The proficiency die is easy enough to use: +2/1d4, +3/1d6, +4/1d8, +5/1d10, and +6/1d12. The issue with also using those dice for ability modifiers is that it's a different range: +1-5 instead of +2-6, so to keep up the progression, you'd need to use 1d2 for +1.

Not applying dice to ability modifiers also avoids the "what do you do with that -1?" problem.

If I DID use ability mod dice, I'd just leave the -1 as a -1 instead of subtracting 1d2.

This variant would definitely make everything more swingy. With standard rolls, especially with high modifiers and/or Expertise, it's easy to be able to essentially say "as long as I don't roll a 1, I'll pass any DC lower than X." With this variant, that threshold can drop dramatically. If you roll all 1s, even with Expertise, your roll will end up in low single digits, absent any other modifiers. On the other hand, if you roll all your dice maxed out, you can get some crazy high numbers. For example, a 20 Dex Rogue with Expertise in Stealth, at 20th level, with no other mods, can roll a result of 54 (2d12 from Expertise, 1d10 Dex mod, 1d20 as usual). Normally, a roll of 20 on that same check would only be 36. Personally, I see that as a feature, not a bug, but it's something to be aware of.

 

[TallIan]

If I DID use ability mod dice, I'd just leave the -1 as a -1 instead of subtracting 1d2.

This variant would definitely make everything more swingy.

Actually this makes the result less swingy, but with a greater range. The probability of rolling all dice high (or low) is lower than a mid range result. It does make the range wider (all ones or all max) but that has a significantly lower probability. In the same way that rolling ability scores usually results in 12 to 14.

With standard rolls, especially with high modifiers and/or Expertise, it's easy to be able to essentially say "as long as I don't roll a 1, I'll pass any DC lower than X." With this variant, that threshold can drop dramatically. If you roll all 1s, even with Expertise, your roll will end up in low single digits, absent any other modifiers. On the other hand, if you roll all your dice maxed out, you can get some crazy high numbers. For example, a 20 Dex Rogue with Expertise in Stealth, at 20th level, with no other mods, can roll a result of 54 (2d12 from Expertise, 1d10 Dex mod, 1d20 as usual). Normally, a roll of 20 on that same check would only be 36. Personally, I see that as a feature, not a bug, but it's something to be aware of.

I would run expertise as “advantage” on the proficiency die and maybe the ability modifier die as well. That way you avoid the more ridiculous possible results. Rogues would be significantly nerfed by that and might need a little extra (another expertise skill perhaps).

 

[Yunru]

Heck, now I'm thinking about having ability checks use 1d(ability modifier-10), except that d(odd #s) aren't in standard sets. Suddenly odd ability scores matter!

3: -1d8+1
4: -1d6
5: -1d6+1
6: -1d4
7: -1d4+1
8: -1d2
9: -1d2+1
10: 0
11: 1d2-1
12: 1d2
13: 1d4-1
14: 1d4
15: 1d6-1
16: 1d6
17: 1d8-1
18: 1d8
19: 1d10-1
20: 1d10

???

 

[Xeviat]

Only using a proficiency die still means you'll only primarily use the d20 and one other die. By using ability score dice as well, you'll have a whole set of dice to be regularly rolling.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 1dX-1; it means the odd scores have a chance of rolling 0 when the even score below it had a lowest roll of 1.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

If you like rolling the extra dice, here is a schema I came up with a while ago for +1 to +11 (the range most PCs will have for prof bonus + ability mod). You could expand it to include a greater range for times when something doubles proficiency bonus, uses Expertise, etc., but instead I would just have such things add the normal flat bonus. So, if you have Expertise in Stealth and normally are + 8 (+4 prof bonus, +4 Dex), you would roll the 1d8+1d6 for the +8 as normal, and then add a flat +4 for Expertise.

+1: 1d3-1
+2: 2d3-2
+3: 2d4-2
+4: 2d4-1
+5: 2d4
+6: 1d6+1d4
+7: 2d6
+8: 1d8+1d6
+9: 2d8
+10: 1d10+1d8
+11: 2d10

The average rolls work out to exactly the +X value they represent. I toyed with the idea, but worried the extra rolling and adding would slow things down too much (what can I say, some of my player's ain't the brightest... ).

 

[WaterRabbit]

This just seems like another thing to slow down the game. I have seen too many players have trouble with just basic math, so adding a variable they have to add/subtract just adds more to their calculations.

In case you think I am exaggerating on this, just watch a few episodes of Dice, Camera, Action.

 

[jmartkdr]

If you're using roll20, d[any interger] is possible. You could even do d[ability score].

 

[WaterRabbit]

If you're using roll20, d[any interger] is possible. You could even do d[ability score].

True, but I have found that players tend to be lazy. I use Roll20 and if I call for a roll that isn't something they can just click on the character sheet (i.e., /r 2d8+3) they get confused on how to do it and it slows the game down. I even created macros for my players for simple checks that are used all of the time.

 

[Yunru]

I have a list for this! And this time they all have a minimum roll of at least 1

2.5: 1d4
3: 1d10/2 (rounded up)
3.5: 1d6
4: 2d4-1
4.5: 1d8
5: 2d4
5.5: 1d10; 3d4-2
6: 2d6-1
6.5: 1d12; 3d4-1
7: 2d6
7.5: 3d4
8: 2d8-1
8.5: 3d6-2
9: 2d8
9.5: 3d6-1
10: 2d10-1
10.5: 1d20; 3d6
...