D&D 5E What is your definition of a Vanilla setting

[Raduin711]

FR is the kind of vanilla that has little flecks of vanilla bean in it. Some people can taste the vanilla bean and love it, other people don't see what the big deal is, who pays this much for vanilla ice cream?

Greyhawk is old-fashioned vanilla, off brand. The kind that your grandparents bought when you were a little kid, and hasn't changed its recipe or branding in that entire time.

Dragonlance is vanilla with chocolate chip shavings in it. Still a bit old fashioned, not technically vanilla but as close as you can get to vanilla without actualy being vanilla.

 

[Blue Orange]

Much as I enjoy the ice cream metaphors, using the metaphor of 'vanilla as baseline straight from the books', I'd say Greyhawk in the 1st, 2nd, and to a lesser extent 3rd editions and Forgotten Realms in the 3rd and 5th.

In 1st and 2nd edition, Greyhawk was the assumed world. The named spells (Otto, Bigby, Tenser) were Greyhawk-themed. Forgotten Realms was a large bunch of sourcebooks that had to be added on. When you got to 3rd, they were still using the Greyhawk gods but most of the material seemed to assume Forgotten Realms.

Dragonlance was never vanilla--with its color-coded wizards, dragonlances, and draconians, it was a deliberate example of a slightly different world that still fit with D&D.

Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, Planescape, and the like were the equivalent of the flavors put in ice cream, and therefore not vanilla--instead of 'ice cream plus chocolate or strawberry', you have 'post-apocalyptic D&D with psionics', 'D&D with gothic horror', 'D&D in space', 'D&D in Arabia', 'D&D on the outer planes', etc. Eberron was deliberately un-vanilla--Keith Baker won a contest for the best new setting.

 

[Raduin711]

Much as I enjoy the ice cream metaphors,

I think the biggest thing this thread is revealed is how much we all like ice cream.

and metaphors.

but mostly ice cream.

 

[steeldragons]

To the question, not necessarily the "poll," of the thread, MY definition of a "Vanilla" setting would be:

Includes all of the base assumptions of the Player's Handbook of a given system. In the case of a D&D world, at minimum, that is Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Fighters, Clerics, Mages/Wizards, Thieves/Rogues. I would say you could get up to...say, 10 species and 12 classes before you begin venturing outside of "vanilla" territory. There is a degree of cultural presumption attached to many of these elements: Elves live in the forests. Dwarves are from the mountains and great miners/smiths, Humans are, generally, the most widespread and diverse peoples -but the most limited by lifespan.

MAGIC exists and functions to astonishing physics-breaking reality-altering effects and may be accessed in various different ways. The "vanilla" setting for D&D, I would say includes a minimum "spread" of 6 spell levels. Like most other elements, there is a dial from low-to-high magic which may include significantly more powerful or less powerful magic in a given region, if not the whole world. But the average, what I would call a "vanilla baseline" would include things "Sleep/Fireball/Teleport" mages, "Cure Wounds/Dispel Magic/Raise Dead" clerics, "Entangle/Call Lightning/Wall of Thorns" druids. Who/how many magic-workers you have, the spread of their power, how that power is manifest (or not) in political power is all adjustable a great deal and still remain a "vanilla" setting. Non-vanilla magic would be adding in things like different magics, e.g. Psychic powers, or divergent systems beyond a standard spell progression/slot system, e.g. "Blood Magic" or "Spells via magical Tattoos" or "Spells only work at such times/under X moon or Y star-alignment" that kind of thing.

A vanilla setting assumes the existence of fantastic creatures and monsters, beyond those supernatural beings included as character species, e.g. griffons, mermen, goblins, trolls, etc... This does not necessitate the inclusion of EVERYthing in a given Monster Manual existing in the world at once. Nor does it mean every monster in every creature compendium put out across a single edition (let alone more than one game/edition) must have some place in the world. But it does, in nearly all cases, include Dragons.

Given the above two criteria, the vanilla setting functions, mostly, as we would expect in the real world. The world is round. There are stars, a sun, a moon or moons. There are days, years, a -generally standardized- turning of the seasons. Time progresses. Gravity, force, the speed of light are all actual things that function as we understand them. Part of the entire point of the existence of beings and energies being "Magic/magical" is that they break, or exist in spite of, these things we recognize from our reality.

A "vanilla" setting is most likely to take place within a feudal monarchy, or similar geopolitical regions we comprehend/recognize from the real world. There are the not uncommon addition of things like "temple complexes/theocratic hierarchies" which may or may not control their own region/nation or "wizard-led/-ruled societies," and other strongholds and organizations that encompass the base assumptions of species and class: thieves' guilds, druidic organizations/"circles," monk & paladinic orders, elfin woodland strongholds, pastoral halfling villages, and the like.

A vanilla setting is one in which there is a definite sense of who/what is Good and who/what is Evil. This may be individual creatures, entire nations, or esoteric threat (demonic invasion, evil wizard going to take over the world, etc...). In nearly all examples, whatever the established 'villainy" is seeking to overthrow the "goodly" civilization/kingdom/world the heroes care about and (presumably) come from. There is room for some ethical/moral "greyness," Neutral-aligned characters, the noble-hearted thief or hero-in-the-making mercenary warrior, double- and triple-crossing villains and heroes, and such like. The possibility (and realities) of betrayal and redemption are, after all, quintessential to myth-/story-making. But broadly speaking, on a "world" scale, there is a clear demarcation of a "good" side and a "bad" side.

I'd say, any and everything beyond that...begins to play with the flavor. Want to add guns as a basic technology of your setting? Not vanilla. Lasers and spaceships? Not vanilla for a fantasy setting (yes, yes, I know. "But Barrier Peaks...!!!" I know. But I'd submit that is a relic of the pulp fiction elements of the game's roots and we..."know better" now, as a genre.). Want to add quadruped talking animals as player characters? Not vanilla. There are Sixteen Schools of Sorcery and only with the tattoo of the a given school can you cast spells/use magic of that type? Not vanilla (though could certainly be teased out of the vanilla assumption of Magics). The world is a double helix and there is no way to get from MortalHumanland to ShiningGodsheim without passing, physically, through at least 12 other "rungs" of the celestial ladder first? Not vanilla. What is called a desert is desolate expanse of marshmallow fluff? Mountains are giant tacos mined by the jalapenomes for the uber-precious veins of cumin and cayenne? Not vanilla.

I think that covers my "baseline" for what constitutes a "vanilla" setting. As should be evident, there is a great deal of leeway in some areas. Less so in others.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I don't define a Vanilla setting because it doesn't actually mean anything. I just describe the settings themselves as they are because they really are not that complicated. Why waste my time calling something "vanilla" only to then have to explain why I called it that, when I could have just described it in the first place?

 

[Eltab]

Greyhawk is the "most vanilla" in that it has been ignored for decades and has the fewest ingredients. Everything it has that is in the PHB and MM work as you would expect from reading those books.

Forgotten Realms is sort of vanilla in that it has everything you would expect from reading the PHB and MM, and they work as you expect. But after 50 years of almost-continuous work / additions, FR also has aspects of a Banana Split Flavor Twinkie: there is so much packed into a confined space, it all runs together and cannot be identified separately; conversely if it was a larger item (whole cake) and each flavor had enough room to have a taste bud to itself it would be really tasty / flavorful but not at all vanilla.

DragonLance has its own flavor and is not vanilla. Ditto Eberron.

Dark Sun is either key lime (tart tangy but not vanilla) or brussles sprouts (green vegetable), depending on if you like it or not.

 

[overgeeked]

So, how do you define a vanilla setting, specifically as an example which setting is most vanilla to you, FR or GHK or maybe even DL?

I honestly can't tell them apart...so all three.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I see a lot of people are defining vanilla in different ways. To me, vanilla is the original version of something, because any expansions or add-ons were released. The most common usage I hear for it is people referring to the original release of World of Warcraft as vanilla WoW, before all the expansions came out and made it more complex. So every single D&D setting starts out vanilla.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Forgotten Realms has had too many years of too many cooks creating too much lore and too many peculiarities to actually be vanilla in its official form. However I suspect the average table running a published campaign have not read endless novels and whatever, and, like me, just sort of ignore the lore and genericize it to something that can fairly be called vanilla.

I think this sort of "as played" vanillaness comes from using a setting for published campaigns. Hence, these days, Forgotten Realms is the primary recipient of such vanillaness At present the most vanilla setting is the area of the Sword Coast along the Triboar trail where both the Starter Set and Essentials Kit adventures take place.

 

[pemerton]

Of the three settings listed, the only one I have play experience in is Greyhawk. It's a nice mix of REH-ish sword and sorcery (ancient empires, ruins, returned liches, snake cults, the Bright Desert, etc) and JRRT (Celene, the Kron Hills and Lortmils, the Pomarj, etc). I don't know if I'd call it vanilla. But it's no surprise it works well for any standard D&D-ish FRPGing. These days I use it for Burning Wheel.