What It's Like For a Gamer Girl

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

It always amazes me how people constantly try to say "Men are like THIS" and "Women are like THIS". Its almost as if a person feels they NEED to be completely seperate in every way from a member of the opposite sex.

I think that its best to just work with people on a INDIVIDUAL basis and not try to toss them into a group and then stereotype them into something they aren't. Men and Women are both HUMAN(believe it or not ) and humans have this annoying(yet very fun) way of acting against stereotypes.

If a person is a jerk, its not because they're male or female...its simply because they're a jerk. Simple as that really.

"Sexism? Forget that! There's something worse than Men or Women. Stupid People. They invade both sexes. I say we forget about the sexes and just get rid of all the stupid people."

 

[Wicht]

Once again people... there are no bad sexes, just bad people. And do not try to assign a playing style to one sex, it doesn't work. As per Butter's and my example.

I don't think most of us were saying that one sex plays one way and the other plays a different. Most of us are just trying to point out that we tend to communicate differently and that recognizing this helps us communicate better.

And while there are broad stereotypes concerning men and women that sometimes do fit, I think the majority of us recognize that even then there are exceptions and a broad spectrum of personality types within that spectrum and that each individual and each group should be approached on a case by case basis.

 

[Camarath]

And yes water is wet.

Only in a liquid state.

 

[Mark Chance]

I get so sick of the idea that if a woman wants to play in the boys game she has to totally be the one to change. Bull if the guys want her in the game then they will do a little bending if needed.

Exactly. Gaming is a social event. Consideration is due all around. But, as I believe it was Fusangite who pointed this out, gaming is a voluntary, private social event in most cases (barring things like conventions). This affects the amount of bending that can be reasonably expected, especially of the host in whose home the game takes place.

My home is a no-smoking zone. Smokers are welcome to game in our group, but they cannot smoke inside the house. I have two young children who are sometimes in the house during game time. If this is a problem for a player, too bad. IOW, if you're a smoker who must smoke in of doors and does not like children, my home is not the place for you to game.

Of course, this does not excuse pointed rudeness or deliberate malice. For example, no one in my gaming group would dismiss someone's opinion on a matter based on that person's gender or attribute said opinions to the influence of hormones (i.e., no one would imply that opinions expressed result from a "testosterone love fest").

At the same time, I game with friends. If someone says something foolish, he can expect to be made fun of. If someone says something factually incorrect, he can expect to be corrected. This is part of the social aspect of gaming for us as well. To someone outside our circle, our quips may very well seem hostile, even hateful. Of course, this begs the question as why everyone, even the "victim" is laughing.

Finally, this bears repeating:

Originally posted by Fusangite
It is destructive for us to suggest that Afrodyte hang in there because she is "right"; she should be spending her energies creating a better, different gaming group that is actually fun. I would recommend one that has a higher female to male ratio so that the social dynamic that is created is more neutral and woman-friendly -- not because it's objectively better but based on the vastly more important criterion that it would be more fun for her.

 

[Enkhidu]

... When gaming was more "fringe" it was done for its own sake, not as a football alternative for a "boys night"...

My experience must have been very different from yours, because D&D has always been a football alternative for a boys night out. In fact I used to play pickup games of football with the exact same group I gamed with (and I've been a gamer since the early 80's).

In fact my gaming groups have always felt like a sports team, especially in our younger days. We were competitive with each other, and had the ability to work as a team (when we had some strong leadership). Some of our marathon gaming sessions had a real locker room mentality - juvenile humor, the occasional swirly, etc.

OK, so maybe we were actually more like a pack of wild dogs than a sports team - sometimes the two aren't all that different.

And if Afrodyte is having to deal with that kind of crowd, I can't say as I'm suprised that she's not dealing well with it. Most women just won't (or can't, or what have you) put up with that kind of testosterone-y environment.

 

[Elf Witch]

I think I wouldn't want to play in your game. I'm not interested in romantic plots, and I don't want to play with "charmers", and I don't want to be either a courtesan or a princess. I want to be a fighter who can lay the smack-down on the bad guys, or I want to be a wizard who casts powerful spells, or I want to be a rogue who to whom no lock is an impediment, or I want to be a cleric who is the chosen of her god. Perhaps that makes me an atypical female. Or perhaps it just makes me a gamer. But I surely wouldn't invite any of my nongaming female friends to a game by using your suggestions. I think they would all run screaming. Is it possible that all the women I know are atypical?

In a way this is a subtle put down to woman who might be interested in playing a game where there is romance and charm. I play a tough fighter right now but in the past I have played a more "feminine" type character. I have noticed in this tread and others like it that some female gamers take a lot of pride in being treated like one of the boys and how on the whole they think guys are more honest and straight forward and not as likely to stab you in the back.

It is almost like you won't be accepted unless you change who you are. I am a woman I love being a woman. I am a good role player and I know most of the rules. On the whole I usually get along with the guys I play with I don't expect them to not be guys but I do expect them to treat me with the same respect in the game as they treat each other.

In my experiance men are just as likely to stab someone in the back when the person is not around and a waoman is just as likely to defend a person who is not there. I am kind of sick of the sterotyping going on. Yes men and women react differently and we don't always think the same way but that does not make one better than the other. I think the gaming experiance is enriched by having both guys and gals in it. Personally I think it might be boring to play in a game wherever one thought like I did.

 

[Enkhidu]

On the whole I usually get along with the guys I play with I don't expect them to not be guys but I do expect them to treat me with the same respect in the game as they treat each other.

This is very telling: I have the distince feeling that you would not want to be treated with the same amount of respect as the people in my gaming group show one another - we disparage one another so often (and in good, clean, safe fun) that it shocks and appals those who haven't seen it before.

Playing at our table some nights rates fairly highly on the "SELF-ABUSE-O-METER" (thanks to William and Connor for that onThanks to William and Connor for that one!, yet everyone takes it in stride and has a good time because none of it is meant other than in jest.

I'm not sure how it is in your neck of the woods, but every time I get together with guys I feel safe with, the verbal abuse starts to fly.

 

[Elf Witch]

Exactly. Gaming is a social event. Consideration is due all around. But, as I believe it was Fusangite who pointed this out, gaming is a voluntary, private social event in most cases (barring things like conventions). This affects the amount of bending that can be reasonably expected, especially of the host in whose home the game takes place.

My home is a no-smoking zone. Smokers are welcome to game in our group, but they cannot smoke inside the house. I have two young children who are sometimes in the house during game time. If this is a problem for a player, too bad. IOW, if you're a smoker who must smoke in of doors and does not like children, my home is not the place for you to game.


This what I mean about bending. if your house is non smoking you ask the smokers to smoke outside you don't say you can't smoke at all. The smoker bends by going outside. See simple. A lot of so called problems can be worked out by just learning a few social skills like how to behave in someone else home.

 

[Elf Witch]

This is very telling: I have the distince feeling that you would not want to be treated with the same amount of respect as the people in my gaming group show one another - we disparage one another so often (and in good, clean, safe fun) that it shocks and appals those who haven't seen it before.

Playing at our table some nights rates fairly highly on the "SELF-ABUSE-O-METER" (thanks to William and Connor for that onThanks to William and Connor for that one!, yet everyone takes it in stride and has a good time because none of it is meant other than in jest.

I'm not sure how it is in your neck of the woods, but every time I get together with guys I feel safe with, the verbal abuse starts to fly.

Actually I would have no problem with it. The reason why is that it is done in a joking manner and everyone is doing it. I am not being singled out because I am the *girl*. We do this to each other in our group too.

By repect I am talking about being treated like I am as smart as the guys when it comes to actually playing the game.

I don't mind being teased I do mind being patted on the head and told sit quietly why the men figure out the best tatic for dealing with the dragon. See the difference?

 

[eryndel]

I get so sick of the idea that if a woman wants to play in the boys game she has to totally be the one to change. Bull if the guys want her in the game then they will do a little bending if needed.

I might be arguing tone more then substance here. There seems to be an idea here of "if I'm coming to your group, you best accomodate me." attitude perhaps in response to the "it's a boys club, be one of the boys." I think the former (accomadate me) is a little unreasonable in the short term. If you are a newcomer (man or woman) and you enter an existing situation you could either:

A) State how you expect things to be (social rules, etiquette) and be miffed when that's not how it is.

or B) Blend in to the already established social rule and exert change once you've established yourself as a contributing member of the group.

The latter is slower, and might take months of the new person working themselves into the group but has been the only one to work in all the groups I've been involved in. I've seen people try to join a group and expect changes, and they are quickly not wanted.

The tone I get from your post is that a group that wants you as a member better rapidly accomodate your needs. That attitude will not likely make you wanted for long, at least in many of the groups I've played with.

I apologize if I've misunderstood your point.