What It's Like For a Gamer Girl

[Green Knight]

Left-brain imaginative maybe, but most of the ones I've met are near dead on the right side of the brain.

And how! Not bringing up politics, but I am more than disturbed that many gamers are fond of something that put a chunk of my family into the ground.

I find gamers to be highly insensitive socially.

I admit to forgetting my manners on occasion (Like one time when I plowed into an elevator without letting the people get out, first. Yeesh! ). But I generally try to be polite in person most of the time. Doesn't take much effort, and on the occasions where I let politeness slip, I've regretted it.

This is the crowd where many people get into rape fantasies when a female shows up at the table

Ouch! Though in some cases true.

often completely lack any social graces whatsover

I remember meeting a guy who hardly ever bathed, much less washed his clothes. The guy was a filthy disgusting ball. His hair was all greasy from lack of bathing, he reeked, and his clothes still had stains on them from where he spilled a drink or whatever. Hardly ever washed those clothes, so they never went away. And he'd wear the same filthy shirt and pants ALL the time.

This guy, btw, also was completely inconsiderate. For instance, on a trip to Disney World, we were supposed to be taking turns in the bed of the pick-up truck, because the four people in the truck couldn't all fit in the seat (We were split in two. Some in the truck, some in another car). I dutifully took my turn, but when I went to take a seat, he wouldn't take his turn. Instead, he said that the girlfriend of one of my friends should go sit back there. Jerk. Suffice to say, I spent a lot of time on the bed of the truck that day.

and tend to be very rude and unforgiving.

I've definitely met the like. Though in all honesty, I'm fairly unforgiving, myself. But that's only in instances when I feel I've been really wronged (Like an incident in which someone stole over $450 of Games Workshop miniatures and books from me. Don't think it was out of line for me to kick his ass).

I find them the least empathic people I deal with in my life.

Don't know about empathy, but I've encountered far more bigotry from gamers then I have from anyone else.

It's a long way to go from, "D&D players are likely to be functionally literate," to, "D&D players are at or near the top of intelligence and creativity in society."

Sounds like "circle jerk" material to me.

 

[Teflon Billy]

...In my experience, most people are pretty creative in some way and pretty intelligent, to boot. It's rare that I meet someone and discover that they're not very bright...

I'm not going to touch that one.

Suffice to say that you get this one for free. Send another lob like this across the plate and brother, it's going out of the park.

 

[Desdichado]

Why would it be true that there is a precisely equal proportion of them in every possible place? Doesn't it seem weird to you that in every single demographic subgroup on the face of the planet, the proportion of clever people would be absolutely identical no matter what? What makes clever people so special that they somehow avoid ever congregating unlike tall people, fat people, libidinous people, etc.? Do they have some special property that causes them to avoid other clever people at all costs? What else could account for the precisely equal distribution of them across all geographic and demographic categories that you allege?

You've also not demonstrated (and won't be able to) that gaming is the avenue by which intelligensia would wish to congregate. Unless you can, you're point is unsupported and unsupportable. You've also not demonstrated that those who are attracted to gaming are necessarily the creative or intelligent types. Your points are therefore all circular and lead nowhere.

It does seem outrageous, based on the thread so far, that D&D players are any better at thinking than any other group. Is the mass refusal to comprehend demographics part of some brilliant scheme to win this argument? I sure hope so.

Ah, the irony. See what I said above in this post.

Also, I wasn't aware this was an argument. I merely posted my opinion on gamers vs non-gamers. You'll not convince me to change my mind with circular logic.

 

[wolfen]

Barsoomcore observes that



Why would it be true that there is a precisely equal proportion of them in every possible place? Doesn't it seem weird to you that in every single demographic subgroup on the face of the planet, the proportion of clever people would be absolutely identical no matter what? What makes clever people so special that they somehow avoid ever congregating unlike tall people, fat people, libidinous people, etc.? Do they have some special property that causes them to avoid other clever people at all costs? What else could account for the precisely equal distribution of them across all geographic and demographic categories that you allege?

Of course, this thread is really the ultimate counter-argument to Teflon Billy's suggestion. It does seem outrageous, based on the thread so far, that D&D players are any better at thinking than any other group. Is the mass refusal to comprehend demographics part of some brilliant scheme to win this argument? I sure hope so.

Thanks for the post. Well said. It's the hardest I've laughed so far today.

wolfen

 

[fusangite]

Joshua,

Believe me, I'm not arguing that D&D is the number one choice for intellectuals as a recreational activity (or even in the top 100). What I am arguing is that D&D requires levels of math, abstract thought and literacy that many other recreational activities do not.

It thus sets up barriers to entry or disincentives to participation for those who have difficulty with math, literacy or abstract thought. Or just don't enjoy these things. By having barriers and disincentives that keep people with poor literacy, math and abstract thinking skills out, RPGs, necessarily, over-represent those who do not have those difficulties.

Let's suppose I had a club that met in a basement with 6' ceilings for monthly parties at which there were no chairs provided. Wouldn't you be surprised if the club included people over 6' tall in precisely the same proportion as people under 6'? It would sure surprise me.

How about this: there are two service clubs in a city -- let's say the Shriners and the Lions. Both clubs do charitable activities, have regular meetings, hold breakfasts with guest speakers and have a couple of banquets at which everyone gets drunk. Now, let's suppose that the Shriners, for one of their charitable activities, donate blood at the Red Cross once every three months while the Lions do not. It would logically follow that the Lions would over-represent people afraid of needles and the Shriners would under-represent them. This is not because the Lions attract needle-phobes.

People who are insecure about their literacy and numeracy are under-represented in D&D. Now, unless you posit that feeling insecure about your literacy and numeracy skills is in no way linked to actually being bad at these things, it follows that D&D over-represents people who are literate and numerate. According to IQ tests, etc. such people are clever.

 

[wolfen]

Here's my belief based upon the fine posting contributed thus far:

Gaming will tend to attract the abstract thinking, imaginative type in greater proportions. However, this type of person (in my experience) has difficulty recognizing the distinctiveness of their thinking patterns.

In general, we tend to think we're weird or less popular because we choose to game. However, I submit to you that the greater issue is that our thoughts and ideas distinguish us, and that gaming is a natural expression of some of these.

In other words, sometimes our propensity for imagination makes it difficult to recognize and accept the average man's thinking patterns. It's easy to assume that we simply choose or prefer different hobbies. But the fact remains -- some people are simply incapable of engaging in RPG's, and some simply get no joy from it. That automatically and inevitably skews the gamer demographic.

I have hard time comprehending that so many people are incapable of engaging or enjoying their imagination as often as I do and the way that I do. How can they live like that? In my experience, the average person going on a hike is thinking/discussing "The sky is pretty" while I'm imagining battles being fought, the advantages of the terrain, 'what kind of mystical creature might live here?', the challenge of building and defending a small settlement in the area...etc. If my experience is representative, then am I a gamer or a hiker? I'm a hiking gamer.

HOWEVER, so far the conversation has also tended to discuss creativity as though it were unidimensional...as if pottery, needlepoint, or basketball were not creative expressions.

I think gamers tend to be more creative in particular ways -- but it's not like we all have 20 ranks in a generic Creativity skill an the rest of the population is "commoner."


My .o2


wolfen

 

[Afrodyte]

*Opens a portal to an alternate dimension for the thread-hijacking demons*

 

[Kichwas]

Don't know about empathy, but I've encountered far more bigotry from gamers then I have from anyone else.

Likewise actually. Some of the individual people I knew in the military exceed what I've seen from gamers, but on average the gamer crowd has had them beat.

 

[Kichwas]

Now, let's suppose that the Shriners, for one of their charitable activities, donate blood at the Red Cross once every three months while the Lions do not. It would logically follow that the Lions would over-represent people afraid of needles and the Shriners would under-represent them. This is not because the Lions attract needle-phobes.

It could also just be because someone who worked with a blood drive stopped by and talked to somebody influential with the Shriners. Perhaps there's a nurse or doctor in their rolls who got handed a memo at work and thought of bringing it up at the club.

In other words, in any given statistic they may be meaning behind the result or it might just be random coincidence.

 

[hunter1828]

Because we've hijacked this thread...again...I created another thread to continue the creativity discussion.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61454