D&D General What kind of class design do you prefer?

[TwoSix]

Mark me as the opposite. I cant stand having magic items make the character. I'd rather that all built into progression so magic items can be their own thing.

I don't necessarily need the powers attached to the magic items, but I prefer the character growth to be a function of the core delve for loot-get loot-spend cycle that's the core of D&D. You learn fireball because you found a scroll with fireball, not because you get free spells at level up. You learn a fighting style because you befriended and trained with a weapon master, not because you got a fighting style feat.

I have no problem with more story-path driven game play with bespoke choices in other games, but I don't think it's ideal for D&D.

 

[payn]

I don't necessarily need the powers attached to the magic items, but I prefer the character growth to be a function of the core delve for loot-get loot-spend cycle that's the core of D&D. You learn fireball because you found a scroll with fireball, not because you get free spells at level up. You learn a fighting style because you befriended and trained with a weapon master, not because you got a fighting style feat.

I have no problem with more story-path driven game play with bespoke choices in other games, but I don't think it's ideal for D&D.

I'm kind of with you, but Ive played under enough stingy GMs that think the game works fine if the PCs never have more than a handful of coppers in their pocket. I prefer those mechanics in the hands of the PCs. I fully appreciate wanting their progress to be represented in the setting, but after all these years ive come to just prefer leaving all mechanics under the hood.

 

[Undrave]

(I prefer D&D character growth to be through acquisition and gameplay rather than the player making bespoke choices from a menu. More magic items, less feats.)

I don't necessarily need the powers attached to the magic items, but I prefer the character growth to be a function of the core delve for loot-get loot-spend cycle that's the core of D&D. You learn fireball because you found a scroll with fireball, not because you get free spells at level up. You learn a fighting style because you befriended and trained with a weapon master, not because you got a fighting style feat.

I have no problem with more story-path driven game play with bespoke choices in other games, but I don't think it's ideal for D&D.

I'd be fine with that if the game system is honest about that being an expected part of character growth, on BOTH side of the screen. Proper guidance for the DM on how to dole these out, and an actual list of purchasable items in the PHB so players can plan what they are saving all that gold for, for exemple. We don't need a stingy DM who thinks magic items will break the game and are a superfluous bonus.

 

[TwoSix]

I'd be fine with that if the game system is honest about that being an expected part of character growth, on BOTH side of the screen. Proper guidance for the DM on how to dole these out, and an actual list of purchasable items in the PHB so players can plan what they are saving all that gold for, for exemple. We don't need a stingy DM who thinks magic items will break the game and are a superfluous bonus.

Yea, character growth needs to be baked in as an expectation. A few things should be general purpose items visible to the player, but I like having some surprises as well. I like the idea of a character who started as a warrior type becoming a mage type because they found certain items or achieved certain training during play, and changed their focus.

 

[payn]

Yea, character growth needs to be baked in as an expectation. A few things should be general purpose items visible to the player, but I like having some surprises as well. I like the idea of a character who started as a warrior type becoming a mage type because they found certain items or achieved certain training during play, and changed their focus.

Now that I think about it, this would make an excellent GM supplement. There are always players guides coming out, but after the DMG, its usually just setting stuff for GMs. How to incorporate the PCs lives and story into the setting is something that could be very useful to GMs. Also, it can help combat some prior ideas of GMs about character options and magic items being entirely optional.

 

[Undrave]

Yea, character growth needs to be baked in as an expectation. A few things should be general purpose items visible to the player, but I like having some surprises as well. I like the idea of a character who started as a warrior type becoming a mage type because they found certain items or achieved certain training during play, and changed their focus.

Yeah... I think SOME items and mundane stuff should be there in the PHB, for every level a play. The players then have a sort of baseline for what is available and can, as a default, decide to save money for X, Y, Z, but then the DM can surprise them with A,B,C, and they can better decide what to pursue.

This would finally properly put gold and XP on more equal footing as a type of character advancement currency.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah... I think SOME items and mundane stuff should be there in the PHB, for every level a play. The players then have a sort of baseline for what is available and can, as a default, decide to save money for X, Y, Z, but then the DM can surprise them with A,B,C, and they can better decide what to pursue.

This would finally properly put gold and XP on more equal footing as a type of character advancement currency.

Yea, I've run a few playtests with a system where characters can craft items using found reagents, and can also learn certain abilities from magic items by spending time and XP. (Like learning how to cast burning hands 2/day from practicing with a staff of fire.) Works pretty well.

 

[Lanefan]

I'd be fine with that if the game system is honest about that being an expected part of character growth, on BOTH side of the screen. Proper guidance for the DM on how to dole these out, and an actual list of purchasable items in the PHB so players can plan what they are saving all that gold for, for exemple.

To me this makes it all seem too pre-packaged somehow. 3e made this mistake.

Yes, magic items should be part of character growth - and shrinkage, too: items should be much easier to destroy than 5e has it, meaning a DM has less reason to be stingy with treasure in adventures. But what's available to buy at any given time? Random all the way, and only a tiny fraction of the whole list.

We don't need a stingy DM who thinks magic items will break the game and are a superfluous bonus.

Agreed.

 

[Undrave]

To me this makes it all seem too pre-packaged somehow. 3e made this mistake.

Yes, magic items should be part of character growth - and shrinkage, too: items should be much easier to destroy than 5e has it, meaning a DM has less reason to be stingy with treasure in adventures. But what's available to buy at any given time? Random all the way, and only a tiny fraction of the whole list.

Agreed.

I was thinking of a limited selection generic items/training/boons in the PHB, as a sort of "here's the kind of stuff you could get your hands on and what they might cost", but the DM has the more extensive listing with the crazy stuff. Just so players can have an idea what the growth of their character MIGHT look like.

 

[Minigiant]

Sorcerer just needs to be retired. Give warlock subclasses for those sorcerer subclasses that already don't overlap, and we have a better sorcerer than the actual sorcerer.

The sorcerer idea is fine. We just need to get the community to not see it as a discount wizard.

The 5e playtest had an idea where the sorcerer had spell like abilities similar to invocations based on their bloodline. The community didn't buy into the idea high enough to get over the very very high bar of acceptance needed to make the PHB.

I mean in 5e's dragon book, the one class with an OG dragon subclass gets no exclusive spells. It ties with the favorite Marcia: wizard.

/Rant