D&D 5E What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?

[FrogReaver]

But ppint is that the DMG tells you to determine the type of weapon or do it randomly. However to my knowledge there no table to roll for weapons. So it's up to the DM to screw over the Fighter.

If you are a greatweapon fighter and your DM gives you a +1 sickle, the 100% on the DM.

As you just noted the DMG advice includes do it randomly. Hard to fault the DM for picking one of the options from the DMG.

This is different from boots,cloaks, hats, rings rods, staves, wands etc. For them, the Treasure table and Adventure writers directly screw you over.

Treasure tables and advice that randomly choosing weapon type is an option both come from the DMG, right?

 

[FrogReaver]

wand of fireball is used instead of something else so you don't include the cantrip damage that could otherwise be done. A flametongue is pure addition to the base+ability mod so you do add them. If you don't believe me ask if any fighter would use a flame tongue that did not have a weapon die on top of the 2d6 and did not include their ability mod in the damage instead of something like a 2d6+5 greatsword with their 20 strength or 1d8+5 rapier with their 20 dex. It's really easy to make the numbers look favorable when you leave out h8.5-12 damage from each of the attacks made in a chain. A level 11 caster with firebolt does 3d10 ( avg 16.5), that 16.5 points of damage is the opportunity cost of using something like a wand of fireball because unlike the flametongue it's one or the other.

Use this to help you, the math does not work at all close to how you are suggesting.

Going to leave off everything else so it's 100% clear. You are not calculating the impact of the magic items. Whatever you are calculating, it's not the impact of magic items.

One legitimate argument against this could be that wands of fireball are much more rare than a flametongue of the type of weapon the fighter is using. I don't think this is the case, but it is a legit point to talk through.

 

[Minigiant]

As you just noted the DMG advice includes do it randomly. Hard to fault the DM for picking one of the options from the DMG.

They don't give a way to do it randomly

Treasure tables and advice that randomly choosing weapon type is an option both come from the DMG, right?

Nope. There is no table to choose weapon. It's just +1 Weapon.

 

[FrogReaver]

They don't give a way to do it randomly


Nope. There is no table to choose weapon. It's just +1 Weapon.

So the DMG doesn't say to determine the type of weapon or do it randomly? I mean you just claimed it did a few posts ago. EDIT: So I'm a bit confused. Let's get on the same page here.

 

[tetrasodium]

Going to leave off everything else so it's 100% clear. You are not calculating the impact of the magic items. Whatever you are calculating, it's not the impact of magic items.

One legitimate argument against this could be that wands of fireball are much more rare than a flametongue of the type of weapon the fighter is using. I don't think this is the case, but it is a legit point to talk through.

Thar's not how the damage is calculated though. Instead of making anything clear you are engaging in p-hacking to make a point in contradiction to the actual system's math.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Eh, fighters are better.

People that play Wizards all think that they’re Sherlock Holmes but couldn’t spell “elf” if you spotted them the ‘e’ and the ‘l’.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thar's not how the damage is calculated though.

Agreed, but we don't need to calculate 'the damage' or better labeled 'total damage'. We need to calculate damage caused by the magic item. And I am calculating that correctly.

Instead of making anything clear you are engaging in p-hacking to make a point in contradiction to the actual system's math.

From the article you cited about p-hacking

we introduced how you go about testing a hypothesis, and what can be legitimately inferred from the results of a statistical test. In this post, we will look at a way in which this process can be abused to create misleading results. This is a technique known colloquially as ‘p-hacking’. It is a misuse of data analysis to find patterns in data that can be presented as statistically significant when in fact there is no real underlying effect.

That's not anything like correctly calculating the damage caused by the magic item.

 

[tetrasodium]

Agreed, but we don't need to calculate 'the damage' or better labeled 'total damage'. We need to calculate damage caused by the magic item. And I am calculating that correctly.

From the article you cited about p-hacking

That's not anything like correctly calculating the damage caused by the magic item.

If your GM declared that fighters won't be adding their strength mod or base weapon die/dice to a flametongue's 2d6 fire damage I highly doubt that you would agree that method is anything approaching "correctly calculating damage".

 

[FrogReaver]

If your GM declared that fighters won't be adding their strength mod or base weapon die/dice to a flametongue's 2d6 fire damage I highly doubt that you would agree that method is anything approaching "correctly calculating damage".

The claim is that the difference between using a regular greatsword that does 2d6+mod damage and a flametongue that does 4d6+mod damage is 2d6 damage.

Do you agree with that?

 

[Minigiant]

So the DMG doesn't say to determine the type of weapon or do it randomly? I mean you just claimed it did a few posts ago. EDIT: So I'm a bit confused. Let's get on the same page here.

Let's make it clear

1. Armors, shields, and weapons appear twice as often as rods, staves, and wands in the treasure tables
   1. Adventure writers hand out ASW more often than SRW.
2. Armors and weapons often appear in generic untyped forms. Rods, staves, and wands rarely do.
3. The DMG puts choosing weapons and armor type mostly in the hands of the DM.
   1. So it's up to the DM whether the magic weapon or armor matches fighting style
   2. Adventure writers are notorious longsword, dagger, bow, and greatsword biased
   3. Fighters can still use unmatching ASW and often do want backup ASW of a different style..
4. The DMG puts choosing rods, staves, and wands in the hands of luck
   1. Wizards have to share their rolls of RSW with bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and warlocks.

Therefore, a fighter is more likely to get ASW and they are more likely for their ASW to match their style than a wizard is to get RSW and match RSW with their class.