D&D 5E What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?

[Micah Sweet]

That's the narrative people who didn't like it enjoy pushing.

Despite not actually failing until they pivoted to try to win back all the people who were never going to come back anyway.

And yet they made 5th ed, and a lot of those people did come back.

I don't see 4th ed as a failure, even if I didn't like it personally. But it certainly looks like WotC did.

 

[HammerMan]

You do realize that 4e's status as "the edition that failed"

what will it take to get this meme to end...

 

[Yaarel]

what will it take to get this meme to end...

5e Warlord?

 

[HammerMan]

5e Warlord?

as much as I would love that, I am sure that nothing will stop people from saying the second most successful D&D ever was a failure

 

[Micah Sweet]

as much as I would love that, I am sure that nothing will stop people from saying the second most successful D&D ever was a failure

As I said above, I don't think 4e was a failure. But if the company that made it (or its parent company) sees it that way, you're not going to shake that idea.

 

[DND_Reborn]

as much as I would love that, I am sure that nothing will stop people from saying the second most successful D&D ever was a failure

Please, not another edition war!

 

[Vaalingrade]

As I said above, I don't think 4e was a failure. But if the company that made it (or its parent company) sees it that way, you're not going to shake that idea.

The lesson here is actually that acting like the cast of Mean Girls and just spreading lies works absolutely.

 

[HammerMan]

As I said above, I don't think 4e was a failure. But if the company that made it (or its parent company) sees it that way, you're not going to shake that idea.

the problem is the same I see when people say "This Billion DOllar movie should have made 2 Billion" or on a smaller scale when a sales rep WANTs to up sell $10,000 worth of things, and ONLY does $8,000...

I hope/wish to one day put out a failure that only make a billion dollars

4e/pathfinder split the fan base. some went to pathfinder some stayed at previus editions and some went to 4e. the fact that 5e did BETTER by pulling the 4e (or at least most) players, and some pathfinder players (more then the 4e ones they lost) plus some other pre 3e players coming back and as such 5e did better...

now that is before the boom that came a few years into 5e that has made it dwarf any other edition.

something can UNDER perform, something can OVER perform but still not live up to goals you set. I am sick of hearing how something that did great but didn't hit some goal as being a failure...

imagine you went to play basketball and was told "You are going to win by 80 points" then you only won by 50pts... that doesn't mean you lost.

 

[Lanefan]

I would love to find a way to reduce the needed number of combats for attrition, without eliminating the concept completely. There has to be a happy medium. Why WotC hard-coded at 6-8 encounters a day I swear I don't know.

Speculation: to reduce the need/expectation for overnight/long rests during a field adventure?

If the adventuring day is designed as 6-8 encounters and a typical segment/chapter of a published AP has, say, 15 then clearly they're shooting for one long rest per segment - maybe two if a party is cautious.

What they seem to be specifically designing against is the approach where a party nibbles at the edges of an adventure then retreats and rests up before taking another nibble the next day, lather rinse repeat for a few weeks until the enemy's been weakened enough to finish off. Which is sad, as the "nibble" approach seems more rational than storming in all guns blazing in hoes of taking the whole place down at once.

 

[HammerMan]

The lesson here is actually that acting like the cast of Mean Girls and just spreading lies works absolutely.

yup... if you repeat a lie often enough people will think it is the truth (BTW then the people who are not lieing will repeate the lie thinking it is true over and over again)