D&D 5E What Level To Hunt A Great Wyrm?

[Quickleaf]

15th level?

Assuming a direct confrontation without other hijinx, it becomes a Breath Weapon Damage vs. Character HP question. Assuming by "Great Wyrm CR 24" you mean an Ancient Red Dragon (which is CR 24), it's breath weapon deals 91 average damage. You don't want the dragon to be able to knock out the entire fresh party in one breath. At 15th level, a character probably has ~93 hit points on average (assuming d8 hit dice and +1 Con mod), so could withstand average damage of its breath weapon.

Or possibly 5th level if they poison a bait-sheep for dragon to eat, then ambush the poisoned dragon, knocking it prone while it's flying, ideally falling into a trapped area, and manage to stun-lock it on the ground while peppering it at range with total cover.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Great Wyrm's have stats in Fizbans.

A Chromatic Great Wyrm is CR 27 and Mythic. I don't think a Level 13 party could beat one unless they got near supernaturally lucky.

 

[ezo]

Great Wyrm's have stats in Fizbans.

A Chromatic Great Wyrm is CR 27 and Mythic. I don't think a Level 13 party could beat one unless they got near supernaturally lucky.

In that case, definitely tier 4 I would think. I'm not familiar with Fizban's, so I really couldn't say any more unfortunately.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I would make them 16th and then prepare accordingly.

Why did the king die? Did the dragon get advance notice? Maybe the dragon has an ace that the king didn’t know about. Maybe the lair fills with magma periodically, like high tide. This gives them a window that they need to access the dragon and get out. Maybe the king didn’t know this.

So they have things to figure out before they get there. Then you can adjust difficulty as needed by adding challenges on the way: fire elementals that live nearby whose behaviour can tip off the dragon if people venture too close. I large chimney in the lair that the dragon can escape out of but the players can use as a surprise attack if they can scry.

Etc…

 

[Gorck]

Great Wyrm's have stats in Fizbans.

A Chromatic Great Wyrm is CR 27 and Mythic. I don't think a Level 13 party could beat one unless they got near supernaturally lucky.

If a Chromatic Great Wyrm is CR 27, then using @SlyFlourish lazy DM deadly encounter guideline, 4 level 14 characters would have 56 total levels, half of which would be 28. So that would make a CR 27 less than deadly (unless they were completely spent at the end of an adventuring day).

 

[Oofta]

So ... Fizban's great red wyrm has a cone of fire out to 300 feet that does 78 (12d12) fire damage, save for half. The DC is 26. People are suggesting a level 14 party? Really? Unless they're immune to fire, I'd just have the dragon do a fly-by, breath from a couple hundred feet up. Very, very few PCs are capable of making a DC 26 dex save, but if they do survive , just fly out of range (they have fly speed 120) and repeat when the breath save recharges. For example my 14th level paladin with decent HP has 130 HP, so it would take 2 hits. Of course he'd also fail the dex save even on a 20. Oh, and if the dragon would be reduced to 0, they gain 425 HP and get some mythic actions.

A level 14 (or 16) party would be toast if I ran this. If I'm a mean DM (and when it comes to dragons, I am), I'd have terrain set up so that the first blast of fire creates thick clouds of smoke so they could take advantage of their 120 foot truesight.

Sometimes I think people play a different game when they're suggesting anything but the highest levels, or at the very least give PCs a way of prepping that I would not.

 

[Seramus]

The ominous great wyrm has a massive black ballista bolt lodged through its eye from some prior battle. It struggles to think clearly, but does have moments of lucidity. Even other dragons have discreetly put money and items into the pot to help end its suffering.

Now you can justify any behavior or Int/Wis/Cha!

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

So ... Fizban's great red wyrm has a cone of fire out to 300 feet that does 78 (12d12) fire damage, save for half. The DC is 26. People are suggesting a level 14 party? Really? Unless they're immune to fire, I'd just have the dragon do a fly-by, breath from a couple hundred feet up. Very, very few PCs are capable of making a DC 26 dex save, but if they do survive , just fly out of range (they have fly speed 120) and repeat when the breath save recharges. For example my 14th level paladin with decent HP has 130 HP, so it would take 2 hits. Of course he'd also fail the dex save even on a 20. Oh, and if the dragon would be reduced to 0, they gain 425 HP and get some mythic actions.

A level 14 (or 16) party would be toast if I ran this. If I'm a mean DM (and when it comes to dragons, I am), I'd have terrain set up so that the first blast of fire creates thick clouds of smoke so they could take advantage of their 120 foot truesight.

Sometimes I think people play a different game when they're suggesting anything but the highest levels, or at the very least give PCs a way of prepping that I would not.

I would assume the dragon doesn't know they are coming. The party would be given an opportunity to approach without being seen but also a risk of alerting the dragon. If there's no cover from fire breath, I'd make that pretty evident.

The next kilometer is barren scorched earth. in the distance, the mouth of a cave looms.

You know, that might give them the heads-up to take another approach. I've never run 5e past 10th though.

 

[Oofta]

I would assume the dragon doesn't know they are coming. The party would be given an opportunity to approach without being seen but also a risk of alerting the dragon. If there's no cover from fire breath, I'd make that pretty evident.

The next kilometer is barren scorched earth. in the distance, the mouth of a cave looms.

You know, that might give them the heads-up to take another approach. I've never run 5e past 10th though.

If I were to set this up, there is no way the dragon is going to be caught by surprise. In addition, they likely prepped the surrounding lands or defenses, why would they not? Think tar pits that he can set on fire that cause a thick heavy blinding smoke that he can see through because of his blindsight.

Next, if he does attack physically, never get within melee range because it has at least 10 foot reach. Oh, and if it hits with a claw the target is restrained because the target is now grabbed. You have a couple of options there, just fly straight up or because greatwyrms have a burrow speed just start digging.

I haven't really thought through all the ways I might fight this as a player (or counter as a DM), but a level 14 party? They don't stand a chance unless the DM puts their thumb and a big sack of potatoes on the scale for the PCs. If you're doing that, I don't see the point.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

If I were to set this up, there is no way the dragon is going to be caught by surprise. In addition, they likely prepped the surrounding lands or defenses, why would they not? Think tar pits that he can set on fire that cause a thick heavy blinding smoke that he can see through because of his blindsight.

Next, if he does attack physically, never get within melee range because it has at least 10 foot reach. Oh, and if it hits with a claw the target is restrained because the target is now grabbed. You have a couple of options there, just fly straight up or because greatwyrms have a burrow speed just start digging.

I haven't really thought through all the ways I might fight this as a player (or counter as a DM), but a level 14 party? They don't stand a chance unless the DM puts their thumb and a big sack of potatoes on the scale for the PCs. If you're doing that, I don't see the point.

I guess that’s the whole point of the thread. I assumed at least 16th. But it could be higher.

With proper planning they could scry and teleport or have different ways of countering the dragon’s defences. Once you hit 17th level, you are hitting 9th level spells. Lots of ways for magic to get into and out of places discreetly