D&D 5E What Level To Hunt A Great Wyrm?

[Oofta]

I guess that’s the whole point of the thread. I assumed at least 16th. But it could be higher.

With proper planning they could scry and teleport or have different ways of countering the dragon’s defences. Once you hit 17th level, you are hitting 9th level spells. Lots of ways for magic to get into and out of places discreetly

Yeah, I guess if I were a thousand plus year dragon I'd have hired or forced a caster to do inner sanctum or similar for me. Even if the PCs scry, but that only gives you a view of the dragon from 10 feet away. I don't see how that makes much of a difference. Teleport? You've never seen the lair and only have a description of it. Good luck.

There are a few things you could do, but if you allow the invulnerability spell (I don't) that would mean you just have to take the caster out of the picture when the dragon notices they aren't taking damage. Burial at sea perhaps?

A lot just depends on the players. A 9th level spell can be awesome or the dragon can just choose to save. But looking at standard 9th level wizard spells as an example? I can't see anything that would make a huge difference in the fight.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm looking for the minimum level reasonable for the exercise.

Depends on how smart or stupid you play the dragon. I am confident I could make a cr24 ancient red dragon out of the MM challenge a group of 5 level 20 PCs.

 

[Oofta]

Depends on how smart or stupid you play the dragon. I am confident I could make a cr24 ancient red dragon out of the MM challenge a group of 5 level 20 PCs.

Same. That and a great wyrm is CR 27.

 

[SlyFlourish]

If a Chromatic Great Wyrm is CR 27, then using @SlyFlourish lazy DM deadly encounter guideline, 4 level 14 characters would have 56 total levels, half of which would be 28. So that would make a CR 27 less than deadly (unless they were completely spent at the end of an adventuring day).

I follow the a5e rules that a single monster greater than 1.5x the average character level of the group might be deadly.

 

[Tonguez]

5e's greatest innovation was adding Lair Actions and Regional Effects, now youre not just fighting a dragon, your fighting six miles of difficult terrain, rough weather effects, unexpected hazards and hostile creatures. Play the dragon intelligently as a master of its own terrain and you can combat PCs without them ever getting close

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yeah, I guess if I were a thousand plus year dragon I'd have hired or forced a caster to do inner sanctum or similar for me. Even if the PCs scry, but that only gives you a view of the dragon from 10 feet away. I don't see how that makes much of a difference. Teleport? You've never seen the lair and only have a description of it. Good luck.

There are a few things you could do, but if you allow the invulnerability spell (I don't) that would mean you just have to take the caster out of the picture when the dragon notices they aren't taking damage. Burial at sea perhaps?

A lot just depends on the players. A 9th level spell can be awesome or the dragon can just choose to save. But looking at standard 9th level wizard spells as an example? I can't see anything that would make a huge difference in the fight.

By the Monster Manual the Dragon can also be given spells. A Chromatic Great Wyrm can know and cast 8 spells of up to 9th level. Which can all be of the same level by the rules

 

[Demetrios1453]

It's not Smaug's fault that the GM gave their pet player an Arrow of Dragon Slaying.

He wasn't a PC, just a full-on DMPC!

"Hey, while you guys were exploring the dragon lair, some random person back in town just one-shot the dragon."

 

[kigmatzomat]

Same. That and a great wyrm is CR 27.

I don't have fizban so I pulled the biggest evil dragon out of the MM, which is a cr24 ancient red dragon.

 

[Shardstone]

I want to run an adventure (something like 6 3 hour sessions) focused around the PCs hunting a Great Wyrm that has recently awakened in a remote land. The king of that land tries to kill it himself and is destroyed, and his queen and heir send out the call for heroes Beowulf style. The PCs are the ones that answer. The conceit is that the PCs are dragon hunters by trade, so the players will know this (but not know anything about this specific dragon) and create characters based on that conceit.

Assuming a CR 24 Great Wyrm (I have not decided on the color yet; it might be something custom) using dragon enhancing options from Fizban's, what level should the party be? My assumption would be they have to track it to its lair and fight it there, but I also tend to run things pretty loose so maybe a party could lure it out? That's up to the players.

Anyway, what do you think? My gut says about 13th level. Especially against a solo creature, characters of that level punch above their weight. Does that make sense?

If you want a "pretty likely" success, level 14+

 

[Gorck]

I follow the a5e rules that a single monster greater than 1.5x the average character level of the group might be deadly.

So, in that case, they'd have to be level 18 (18 x 1.5 = 27). But that formula doesn't take into account the number of party members. 2 single level 18 characters would get slaughtered by the Great Wyrm, while 8 level 18 characters would mop the floor with it (even though both groups would have an APL of 18).