What made D&D 'evil'?

[Geo]

Dr. Midnight, stuff it, I am not new, just haven't been here for a while. Needless to say, this is an open forum, we can express our own opinions, you telling me to stop expressing mine is in and of itself wrong, what I said is what I thought, you think differently. My experiences tell me what I need to know, and what I need to know is that most people where I am from think D&D is evil. It also so happens that most people from where I am from are Christian, so... 1+1=2. Other people I have talked to have also told me the same thing, it is like this in Columbia Missouri, from two people I have been told, in parts of Madison, WI, here where I am from, and from various other places.

Also, I said the majority, not all, yes I know others that are not D&D haters, but they are few and far between.

 

[Dr Midnight]

Okay, do as you please, but I sense mods en route. I tried to help.

I'm just a little miffed to see a thread about a topic I'm so curious about myself condemned to the noose because you want to go off on something you'd know is off limits if you weren't new here.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

http://www.theescapist.com/random.htm

I believe this was the page were someone tries to explain the "D&D = Evil" myth. It was quite interesting for me, because I didn`t know much about the background of these things - I just thought most American are stupid, crazy people. (beein an European, that`s a logical, but not neccessariliy correct, conclusion and explaination for the facts )

Oh, and the guy is funny

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Geo]

I don't see it as off limits at all, I am talking about my experiences, why should that be bad?

Oh, and for the topic, there are plenty of resourses you can look at, My library here even has journal topics about the "evils" of D&D. So I guess like they say, check your local library.

I also got sent a forward not to long ago, I bet someone on the boards has that, where some guy gave an interview how evil D&D really was, and how it was corrupting the souls of our children. He was off his rocker.

 

[WizarDru]

First off, here's Michael Stackpole's excellent article about Pat Pulling's organization, BADD (Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons). While not specifically about the Egbert case, it does show how one woman's advocacy helped foster the general opinion the public and some law enforcement agencies held or may hold.

http://www.rpg.net/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html


There are several write-ups about Egbert, but most of the negative myths from the case are primarily based on people making money off of sensationalizing it, and the media misrepresenting it. This isn't much different from a variety of topics and situations where this happens, really. Here's just one link, for a start. A quick search of google will reveal tons of 'em:

Part 1: http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Role-Playing/About Gaming/Role-Playing Defense/Dallas Egbert Part 1

Part 2: http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Role-Playing/About Gaming/Role-Playing Defense/Dallas Egbert Part 2

If you want to see one counter viewpoint about why some don't like D&D, those are even easier to find. Take this one, for example:

http://logosresourcepages.org/dnd-bv.html

It's great, as it starts out reasonable, takes lengths to distance itself from some of the old canards that are easily shot down, and then sways into looney-ville by the end.

To wit:
The good morals that might be brought in to the game have no effect on how the character is played. If your character is an evil (alignment) thief then that is how he must be played.

Where there is power and violence there is often sexual immorality. For example, in D & D "non-human soldiers" are expected to "rape freely at every chance."

Remember, in these games, not only does the player become the character, but in some games the character becomes a model for all to emulate.

The bible is the final authority on right and wrong, and if God declares in the Bible that prostitution, rape, stealing, mutilation, murder, human sacrifice, worshiping other gods, casting spells, using magic, and practicing necromancy are wrong, then should one pretend those things or become involved in a fantasy game in which one participates by imaginative role playing? NO!

It should be pointed out that many Christians have no problem with D&D, and fully grasp what it is. Only fanatics and the small-minded have a problem with it. My mother certainly was a devout Roman-Catholic, and while she wanted to examine the game in some detail, she never stopped me from playing. Probably was glad it kept me out of trouble, and improved my reading and history skills.

However, D&D contains many 'hot-button' topics and content, which will set certain people off, no matter how they are treated. Some people can't handle the information presented, regardless of the context. The same group finds Harry Potter and Pokemon equally as objectionable. But D&D isn't as much in the public eye as it was in 1980, so it doesn't get as much negative press these days.

 

[drnuncheon]

To re-hijack the thread, what was the story with D&D and these "steam tunnels" I hear references to constantly, but never the actual tale?

That was the Egbert story. Egbert was a 16-year-old college student at Michigan State University. At Mich State there was a group of people who played "live action" D&D down in the steam tunnels, and apparently Egbert was one of them.

JDE was also a genius (but described as 'socially retarded' by professors), either bi- or homosexual, suicidally depressed, and a habitual user of drugs, who was under an incredible amount of stress from his parents to do well. Somehow these factors don't come up in most reportings of the case.

In any case, JDE vanished from his dorm room, and during the hunt, one detective seized on the idea that D&D was behind the disappearance - this is what got all the media attention, because he didn't want to publicize the drugs & sex angles.

In fact, JDE had attempted suicide, survived, and gone to hide out at the house of a friend - threatening to commit suicide if the police were told of his location. When the each became too much, he left townand went to New Orleans for a while, where eventually the detective tracked him down, befriended him, and convinced him to return home.

JDE asked the detective to not mention his sexuality or drugs, so that his family, especially his brother, would not suffer because of it - so the detective couldn't really rescind what he said until much later, after JDE's brother was out of school. By that time, of course, the media didn't care about setting the story straight.

Unfortunately, the problems James had were still affecting him. He dropped out of school, moved in with another man, and about a year after the disappearance he committed suicide.

So really, D&D was peripheral to the entire story - it got seized upon because it was new and sensational. Hope that helped, Dr. M!

J

 

[Zerovoid]

No, I believe in this case it is fair to generalize. I feel that the idea to christians that D&D is evil is the majority rather than the minority, so with that in hand, I usually don't tell my christian friends that I play D&D, I know it will bother them, so they don't need to know. Again, I feel it is the majority that see it as evil, and I probably would be right.

I don't think you're at all close to correct. Most of the population of the US are christian to some degree or other, but only a handful of real extremists think DnD is evil. I'm sorry you live in such an unfortunate area. Most of the people I game with are Christians. Its only people who don't know the differnce between fantasy and reality that think the game is evil.

 

[UD]

Like most things, there was no one incident. Just a gradual perception. I note that D&D has beceome -- in the mainstream eye -- less "satanic" and more "geeky". Probably a good thing when all is considered.

Incidentally, some folks thought jazz music was satanic 80 years ago. Just some food for thought there.

but Jass music is satanic... (JK)

No, I believe in this case it is fair to generalize. I feel that the idea to christians that D&D is evil is the majority rather than the minority, so with that in hand, I usually don't tell my christian friends that I play D&D, I know it will bother them, so they don't need to know. Again, I feel it is the majority that see it as evil, and I probably would be right.

I would disagree, again (sorry for hijacking) but Im a Christian, I am the president of our universitys quite large roleplaying society. I know 5 other christians in the group. I knowmaybe 70 odd Christians who know Im a roleplayer. Only one of them objects (an extreme fundementalist, who ironicly, was my best friend at secondary school). I would say dont generalise a large group of people, especially as large as one of Christians, its not only offensive to me, but to people in general.

 

[Crom and His Devils]

"but only a handful of real extremists think DnD is evil. I'm sorry you live in such an unfortunate area."

Lucky me, I went, as a early teenager, to a church where not only did the youth directors tell the other kids that D&D was of the devil right in front of me (I was the only one in the community that played), but had a fire-n-brimstone preacher do a little number about the subject too for the congregation (with me in the front row). It was a free(no)-will baptist church, for those playing along at home.

A real boost for my self-esteem and faith in spiritual matters, that was...

In retrospect, I'm just glad none of the faithful ever saw me with my Stormbringer supplement Demon Magic.

[Note: I hold no religion, including christianity, in contempt. Just the fundie ding-dongs which appear to be a plague in every culture in the world.]

 

[CRGreathouse]

I don't see it as off limits at all, I am talking about my experiences, why should that be bad?

Did youi read the agreement you had to acknowledge when signing up for the boards?