I don’t know what’s been said in this particular thread, but the “orcs are fictional” point has been discussed ad nauseam in several other recent threads.
Simply put, you cannot use descriptions that denigrate or demonize real world groups or ethnicities and hide behind a claim that you’re talking about a fictIonal group or ethnicity. At worst, it’s still racist. At best, it’s lazy writing.
Because the number of races/species/groups that have been described by countless writers of fiction and designers of games without using the language of real-world bigotry is literally in the tens of thousands at least.
So orcs would still be a usually evil and violent race of creatures, but they would just be described differently so that it doesn't mimic descriptions that have been used to demonize real world groups of people? I mean, that would be great, but I would be surprised if that were possible. It's just that I would be surprised that there are any words to describe that kind of fantasy race that real world racists have not used.
Perhaps some examples of the "countless" descriptions that have been used? And I mean for a race of evil creatures that would make for a good guilt free opponent. Sure you can write about an admirable but misunderstood race, but that wouldn't fill the same role that orcs are expected to fill in default D&D.
And yes, I read Mecheon's post about examples of orcs that are not chaotic evil savage raiders, but they are not the problem. The problem is how to have fictional race that is useful for providing enemies to a group of heroic adventurers. Adventurers that don't want to debate philosophy, but just want to go out, defeat the bad guys, rescue the innocent, and win some treasure.
And a final note about the "
it really doesn't matter whether or not you or I think there's a problem with any of this. Because we're not the ones being hurt by it" argument. So we can't decide what the problem is, but we can decide what the solution should be? And note that I am not saying there is NO problem, I am pointing out that the proposed solutions my be trying to fix the wrong thing.
It's like having a car with a broken engine, and trying to fix it with a new coat of paint. It doesn't matter how much you "fix" orcs. It will not fix the problem of people being compared to a violent race of creatures that do not actually exist. People have already brought up drow, gnolls, goblins and hobgoblins. You can't fix them all. Or if you did you would just have a bunch of different looking humans.
This is all just my opinion of course. I think it is fair to express our opinions on the problem, as well as the solution, to hopefully provide clarity to the situation.