What monsters would you reall like to play?

[Felon]

Y'know, you people are only giving me encouragement here. I've been working on a homebrew campaign world where Gnolls are the main antagonist (no orcs or hobgoblins), and are a playable PC race as well.

The trouble being they have such a high level adjustment in the core rules (+2). I'm trying to figure out a way to make them a playable +0 race without gimping them too badly...

Well, their level adjustment is only +1. But they also have to cough up two hit dice for their mighty humanoid levels. That's three levels down the tubes for +4 Str, +2 Con, and a point of natural armor. I think that sounds like a raw deal to anyone who isn't a WotC designer.

Here's what I do: ditch the humanoid levels. They're worthless. There wouldn't be such a thing as humanoid levels if the designers had a little more faith in the average DM's ability to assign monsters class levels. Just make it a +1 LA race.

 

[Kesh]

Try the Green Ronin's Egyptian Adventures: Hamunaptra(preview)

I used their Gnolls for my Mulhorandi game.

Thanks for the link! Very interesting take, and might be useful as a baseline.

 

[Kesh]

The way I see it you have two choices: Either knock them down or bring the rest up.

Knock 'em down: For this approach I suggest giving them racial levels. After 2-3 levels of Gnoll, they attain their full monster stats and are equal (more or less) to the human who just gained 2-3 class levels during the same time.

Bring the rest up: This approach has several possible methods. You could boost the base abilities of the other races ("more human than human"...) or you could drop the standard races and go with a full complement of +2 pc races. Once the only options available are +2, then the difference ceases to exist. (just remember that the +2 is technically still there, just hidden, so don't ignore it when setting encounter difficulties or dealing out experience or treasure, etc.)

Hmm. The Racial Levels for all races are a possibility. I'm hesitant to use them, though, as they seriously hinder spellcasting classes in traditional D&D, and they wouldn't necessarily fit into my homebrew (which is likely to be run with Blue Rose / True20).

 

[Kesh]

Well, their level adjustment is only +1. But they also have to cough up two hit dice for their mighty humanoid levels. That's three levels down the tubes for +4 Str, +2 Con, and a point of natural armor. I think that sounds like a raw deal to anyone who isn't a WotC designer.

Here's what I do: ditch the humanoid levels. They're worthless. There wouldn't be such a thing as humanoid levels if the designers had a little more faith in the average DM's ability to assign monsters class levels. Just make it a +1 LA race.

Hrm. Maybe I was thinking of Modern. Or misread something. +1 isn't quite as bad and, perhaps, simply dropping the extra hit dice (and reducing the Str bonus) might do it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I played a Minotaur back in 2Ed and had a blast doing it- can't really be done in 3.X, even with Savage Species.

Why? Because I started him off as a new 1st level PC alongside other, more traditional PCs, and he was a 1/1 Ftr/MU multiclassed PC. And no, he didn't overwhelm game play- big targets get a LOT of attention. He was a lot of fun, too...he came from a culture based on the Plains Indians, so he used a longbow- a really BIG one!

If (like in AU/AE, and apparently PHB 2) you could take monster levels in Minotaur like a normal class, it would be a lot easier, though still not quite the same...unless you also use the gestalt rules.

I do, however, thoroughly enjoy the Anthropomorphic Animals...although I'm at a loss as to why the Cheetah isn't the fastest of them.

 

[paradox42]

Hmm. The Racial Levels for all races are a possibility. I'm hesitant to use them, though, as they seriously hinder spellcasting classes in traditional D&D, and they wouldn't necessarily fit into my homebrew (which is likely to be run with Blue Rose / True20).

No, I think SpiralBound means the sort of thing I did myself in my homebrew- basically, every race (including those from original core) is deliberately made powerful enough to be worth a +2 LA. For instance, humans in my game world get +2 to all ability scores except CHA, and one minor save bonus usable only in specific circumstances. PHB humans, straight out of core, don't exist at all on this world- if you play human, you play it with the adjustments.

What then happens is, once all the races are worth +2, you just drop the +2 and let everybody start at 1st level without any actual adjustment to ECL. Since the whole point of the +2 LA is to balance the powerful race against other PCs of the less-powerful races, it can be eliminated, because every race is balanced to +2. See? Basically, once every race is balanced to be worth +2, you just subtract 2 from any LA a playable race has.

The one problem with this approach is, as SpiralBound noted, that the "phantom level adjustment" is still there with regard to stacking up the PCs against monsters. Because the PCs are more powerful, you'll need to throw bigger nasties against them to give the same challenge. But that, in and of itself, isn't any more difficult than adding power to the weak races to bring them up to +2 LA- actually, it's a lot easier, because you can just use critters 2 CR higher than normal without many (or any) adjustments. The only thing you need to watch for in this case is equipment- PCs won't have equipment matching their "phantom level" if you go this route.

EDIT: ...And I just realized after rereading the posts above more carefully that Kesh wasn't even referring to the option I just explained at length. Gah! This is what I get for posting when not fully awake. Sorry for any confusion.

But anyway, I've been using the "phantom level adjustment" method for years now, and been having lots of fun with it. Two thumbs up, highly recommended.

 

[Kesh]

*grin* Trust me, I've made my fair share of half-asleep posts.

Yeah, the phantom-LA is an interesting take, but it requires shifting power quite a bit. I'm actually going for something a bit more grim in my homebrew, so upping the PC's power right off the bat kinda shifts things more into the 'pulp' style than I'm wanting.