D&D 4E What should 5e do to pull in 4e players?

[Raith5]

I agree with every point made by Vayden

I also think the skill system and rituals need to connect better (ie rituals should boost skills rather than replace them).

I think the hybrid rules are the best form of MC of any system of D and D - whether they could be replicated in 5th ed is an open question.

Skill challenges are are interesting non-combat system which could be further developed (and sharply contradicts the view that 4th was only about combat)


The underlying point here a lot - if not most - 4th ed people played 3rd ed and left for a reason

 

[Incenjucar]

Ease of use is a major thing - 4E fits into a very busy schedule.

Balance - Could have used more work, still - too many character got left out of skill challenges in games without more creative players or DMs, but still better than what came before.

Fairness - Everyone is awesome. Everyone gets to shine more or less equally, and in spectacular fashion, and on a regular basis.

Exploring new archetypes - not having to put up with wizards and religious leaders in every single campaign is fantastic. Still quite miffed that we missed out on shadow and most especially elemental classes. The promise of elemental classes were part of why I got back into D&D.

Clear rules - I can ad lib with the best of them, but I like getting to keep that to corner cases rather than houseruling every five minutes. Not having to carry books around when I DM or play is fantastic.

Loose fluff, abstract rules - I hate being weighed down by someone else's fiction or excessive details. A more abstract system with lighter fluff makes it easier to paint my vision of the game and keep balance in check when someone wants to get creative.

Nod to contemporary fantasy - I like fighters who can keep pace with wizards. I like wizards in armor. I like monsters that are still terrible even if noble, and hideous beasts from vile cultures that can learn kindness (and not just by spontaneous mutation). I like crazy races with crazy powers who go on crazy adventures. I like natural, real personalities that aren't all beholden to the cosmos, even if some others are. I love plenty of old stuff, but man, there are amazing new ideas born every day that deserve their chance at the table.

 

[Vayden]

Loose fluff, abstract rules - I hate being weighed down by someone else's fiction or excessive details. A more abstract system with lighter fluff makes it easier to paint my vision of the game and keep balance in check when someone wants to get creative.

Yes yes yes to this. I understand that you need some default story as a building block, but setting specific material should be setting specific material.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Those are certainly the ones they're going after, the way I read the press release and all the other official words on the subject.

Maybe. WotC has demonstrated bad business sense before. But even someone as critical as me of some of their more boneheaded moves doesn't think they can be that dense. The customer that you have really, truly ticked off to the point that they don't care about even your quality products is a lost customer, statistically (or one faking it for the squeeky wheel treatment--but no practical difference in how you react). The ones you try to win back with improved products, in contrast, are those that have strong complaints about the product itself--and you think you can do something about it.

If they want to try to entice people back that they took the old PDFs down, it won't matter how good 5E is. It will matter if sales/marketing/legal/management thinks its worth it to appeal to them by changing/evolving WotC's digital document practices. Ditto people pissed about 3rd party support, Christmas layoffs, and poorly hidden resentment that their free piggyback ride on WotC's 3E gravy train got derailed suddenly or that their old contributions are no longer canon. Or if you want to look at it from the 4E side, lengthy, laughably inept software management of DDI.

 

[Herschel]

What WotC basically needs to do is to re-release every edition re-painted in modular format and get everyone to believe it's an innovation.

 

[Wormwood]

<awesomeness>.

Can't give out any more XP, so I just wanted to point out that you articulated my thoughts as a 4e player perfectly.

I especially appreciate the 'nod to contemporary fantasy':
The recommended reading (and viewing, and playing) list has grown quite a bit over the past 30 years. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Several others in this thread have done a fine job of reading my mind where it concerns 4e ([MENTION=6182]Incenjucar[/MENTION], [MENTION=57791]Vayden[/MENTION], [MENTION=54877]Crazy Jerome[/MENTION]). I'd have XP'd you all, but I'm at my daily limit.

I hope to have something else of my own to contribute, but I'll have to think on it a bit.