What should a Worldwide D&D Gameday adventure have?

delericho said:
The problem I see with this scenario is that there's not really any mechanism for quickly identifying items found. Even potions have this problem (did they solve this for the Game Day? If so, how?).

The exception, of course, are scrolls, which can be identified with Read Magic.

Of course, you could fudge this, or just plain ignore it. (DM says, "you find this sword", and hands over the item card, which just happens to have "dragon bane frost longsword" on it.)

Keep in mind that identifying magic items is one of those areas where each DM has their own personal preference. That's one of the reasons I threw out the bone of the dungeon being the tomb of a dragonslayer. PC's would instantly recognize, for example, the famed sword used by Lord So-and-so to kill that pesky dragon a decade ago. You might make the bard feel special with their bardic lore ability, or maybe the wizard's Knowledge (history) is actually useful. This would also reinforce the idea of characters existing beyond their ability to smash things.

But yeah, for the target audience of this particular adventure I'd be willing to fudge item identification. I see the target audience as either brand-new players or maybe moderately experienced players that want to try their hand at a new character type they don't get to play at their home games. Many issues of play balance can be safely ingored since this will be a one-time thing and not an ongoing campaign.

Between the playing-a-game and telling-a-story extremes inherent in RPGs, this particular adventure would very heavily lean toward the playing-a-game model. I wouldn't worry too much about the details as long as everyone is having fun and the game is moving.
 

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Dykstrav said:
PC's would instantly recognize, for example, the famed sword used by Lord So-and-so to kill that pesky dragon a decade ago...

But yeah, for the target audience of this particular adventure I'd be willing to fudge item identification...

Between the playing-a-game and telling-a-story extremes inherent in RPGs, this particular adventure would very heavily lean toward the playing-a-game model...

Agreed, on all points.
 

I've been giving some more thought to the 'Dragon as BBEG' issue. In theory, I really like the idea of using a dragon, as it is the iconic D&D beastie, and I can think of no better monster to use for the climax of that first adventure.

However, the point that dragons are also amongst the most complex of creatures to run is also well made. It's also worth noting that if the choice is between having a bad dragon encounter, and having no dragon encounter at all, it's almost certainly better to not have the dragon.

But, I wonder if perhaps there's a way to manage that complexity such that by the time the group reaches that point, even a relatively inexperienced DM can handle it. I can't help but think it might be.

As I see it, dragons are complex for several reasons:

1) Many attacks
2) Varied attack forms (wing buffets, crush)
3) Time dependent effects (breath weapon)
4) Flight
5) Spellcasting and spell-like abilities
6) Spell Resistance
7) Damage Reduction
8) Frightful presence
9) Immunity and vulnerability

However, as was pointed out, a lot of the complexity really only kicks in as the dragon goes up the age categories. Once you restrict yourself to the smaller and weaker dragons, things start disappearing.

Now, if we assume a party of six 5th level PCs, we can identify an EL 6 encounter as the 'baseline' for the game. This makes an EL 10 encounter at the top end of the 'Very difficult' band. However, if we're assuming novice players, we probably want to cut 1 from that value. Additionally, when using more PCs, it's generally a good idea to use more low-CR opponents rather than a single tougher opponent to make up the difference; this might be good for a further reduction to a single CR 8 dragon. (This is particularly applicable, IMO, since dragons are right at the top end of their CR band.)

Furthermore, for the dragon to feel properly dominant on the battlefield, it needs to be bigger than the PCs, which means at least Large size. This gives us the following SRD choices:

Young Adult Black (CR 9 - probably a bit too tough)
Juvenile Blue (CR 8)
Juvenile Green (CR 8)
Very Young Red (CR 5 - too weak)
Young Red (CR 7 - probably too weak, but could be advanced a tad)
Juvenile Red (CR 10 - far too powerful IMO)
Young Adult White (CR 8)

I haven't included the Metallic dragons, as these creatures are colour-coded for convenience :)

One other factor comes into play - it was mentioned that 5th level was good because the Wizard gets the iconic Fireball spell. That would seem to eliminate the Red Dragon from contention, as you wouldn't want to render the party's single best weapon useless for the climactic fight. Of course, you could give the Wizard Lightning Bolt instead, but it's just not the same.

Anyway, back to complexity.

Using a Large Dragon eliminates the Crush attack. Using a Juvenile Dragon eliminates SR and DR, and also Frightful Presence. So, if we stay away from the White and Black dragons, we're sorted.

I also think we can largely discount spellcasting and spell-like abilities. At these age categories, the spell-like abilities are minimal. And, with the exception of the Juvenile Red, the caster level doesn't exceed 1st. What I would propose to do there is give the Dragon some low-level buffing spells, and state in the stat block that these are pre-cast and figured into the stats. (You'll also need to deny PC spellcasters any dispel effects, but as Dispel Magic is 3rd level, I think there are other good spells we can choose instead.)

This only leaves five elements to worry about - many and varied attacks, time dependent effects, the immunity/vulnerability, and flight.

However, there's no significant difference between the Wing buffet and any other attack form, so the only 'gotcha' is the extra reach on the bite attack. And there's no real difference between one creature having five atacks and five creatures each having one (in fact, the latter is more complex, since each of those creatures also gets to move, create flanking, and so on).

Now, how do I propose to handle the remaining issues?

Well, I suggest we face them head-on. Let's teach the DM to handle each of the effects separately in the encounters before the dragon, and then put them all together for the dragon. Sort of like a 'what have you learned' recap session. If we do it right, the DMs will suddenly have a "hey, I can do this!" moment, and won't even realise we've been doing a Mister Miyagi routine on them.

So, in the first encounter, I would propose a nice easy fight against several low-level humanoids, attacking in waves. Perhaps have 4 kobolds at the start of combat, followed by another 4 1d4 rounds later, followed by another 8 1d4 rounds after that.

This teaches the DM to use multiple attacks, and also time-dependent effects. It teaches the players the combat rules, and puts them in a nice easy fight that poses little threat.

The second encounter should then feature a creature with reach. An Ogre, perhaps, or perhaps something

The third should feature a creature with flight. (For goodness sake, give all flying creatures the Hover feat - again, this reduces the complexity a great deal. Also, although the creatures should have the opportunity to fly, they shouldn't have an unrestricted field of movement. Keep the ceiling low enough that even flying they are in reach of the PCs. Give the PCs reach weapons if necessary.)

In one of the encounters, make sure the creature involved either has an immunity or a vulnerability, or both. Ideally, key these to different energy types to those important to the dragon.

And then, the dragon uses all the elements we've been using individually.

I'm inclined to think it should work. I'm also sure it would take some doing to work it just right, but I think it is probably something that is worth doing.

What do you think?
 

schporto said:
I think the level should be a little higher - say 5ht or 6th. Yes some problematic spells start then, but so do those iconic ones too, that let the wizard be a wizard. Namely - fireball. Really - what wizard doesn't want a fireball.

<snip>

-cpd

6th level should specifically be avoided. That brings into the potential for multiple attacks and needlessly complicates the game for the new player. I'd stick with low levels (4th is really a good sweet spot).

Someone also mentioned backgrounds, which is a great idea. When I run my games at OGC, all of the PCs have a background and some character quirks all written out, these are the hooks that the new player can dig into at first. And if they don't then there is nothing lost either.
 

delericho said:
The problem I see with this scenario is that there's not really any mechanism for quickly identifying items found. Even potions have this problem (did they solve this for the Game Day? If so, how?).

No potions, only scrolls which can be identified with read magic or a spellcraft roll.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with finding potions that are labeled, a sword next to a journal describing a study of its abilities.
 

I've given some thought to the "best" dragon to use. It seems to me that the very young red is the best choice for several reasons.

1) It's CR 5. If we're shooting for an APL of 4th, this isn't necessarily a bad thing to have a CR 5 critter at the end. If we want to press the adventure as a speed run (without resting if possible), it doesn't bother me to have the dragon be a bit low on the CR end of things. The PCs probably won't be at full hit points and the spellcasters will be down on several of their spells. There's also no guarantee that there will be 4 players at the end- some characters might get killed or the table might just be short a player or two. It'll still be a tough fight, even for 4th level characters.
2) It's still Large. The BBEG should have some "stage presence."
3) It's low-complexity. At the very young age category, we don't have to deal with SR, frightful presence, spellcasting or any of that. Just move, attack, full attack and breath weapon. We give the dungeon all 10-by-10 passages and the like and we don't have squeezing rules. The (relatively) low ceiling keeps the dragon from flying.
4) It's all material from the SRD/core rulebooks. Novice players don't have to buy alot of stuff to start up. Experienced players don't have to feel like they are being pidgeon-holed into playing with optional material they don't like.
 

OK. I have a rough draft. And boy - I mean rough. But I like it. The entire thing needs a ton of work (stat blocks, better player text, more details, maps). The framework is there.

My first mod is that Encounter 3 should have a puzzle in it. But I tend to be bad a designing those.
-cpd
 

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schporto said:
OK. I have a rough draft.

Damn, you beat me to it! :)

Okay, you didn't ask, but comments:

Introduction: I'm a little worried at the assumption that once the party have killed the Lion they will proceed to investigate the tomb. Perhaps it might be worth having one of the ghosts appear to them at that point and entice them in?

Encounter 1: I think perhaps the Lion may be a bit tough for the first encounter, since if we're dealing with complete novices they may well panic and throw everything they have at it, leaving nothing for later. Perhaps a (formerly-)hibernating Brown Bear (CR 4) instead?

Encounter 2: Having the turned skeletons run right to the Ogres has the potential of setting up a nasty three-way fight, which isn't ideal for a novice DM to run. But it might be appropriate.

Incidentally, the nature of the challenge here strikes me as ideal for that 'easy first fight' I would advocate. Maybe delete encounter 1 entirely, and have the PCs enter here?

Oh, and also, I suggest having a single initiative value for all enemy combatants in an encounter, rather than a seperate value for each one. It just makes running the encounter a lot easier, and isn't entirely inappropriate when the creatures are all identical.

On the positive side, including the rules for Turn Undead and Damage Reduction in the text of the adventure is a very nice touch.

Encounter 3: This is probably best fleshed out with suggested treasures for each class. Even better would be to have notes on how the treasures affect the stats of the most likely recipient.

Encounter 4: I have nothing to say here.

Encounter 5: Actually, I like having Ogres - it gives the DM a chance to get used to the Reach rules, which will matter when facing the dragon. Include a note as to the effects of Reach here.

Encounter 6: Not much to say here, either. Play-testing will indicated whether a Very Young or Young dragon is most appropriate - my guess would be the Young dragon as the earlier encounters have been fairly low EL for a six-person party of 5th level characters.

(That said, when I looked at the Draconomicon sample Juvenile Blue - my personal favourite - it looked decidely like a TPK all by itself against a group of that level.)
 

My personal Opinion for Game Day is

1.) The Adventure Begins (a 3rd level dungeon crawl using mostly simple-core rules)

2.) Death in Sharn (a 6th level Eberron adventure/murder mystery showcasing Eberron)

3.) Fane of the Dracolich (a 15th level Dragon/Dracolich encounter ala the Black-Dragon Delve)

This allows a simplified dungeon for newer players or casual interest, a mystery to emphasize role-playing and Eberron, and an all-out high level dragon fight for the really experienced.

Of course, some DDM, SWM, and 3-Dragon Ante would round off the day (and act as a time-killer between games)
 

delericho said:
Damn, you beat me to it! :)

Okay, you didn't ask, but comments:

Introduction: I'm a little worried at the assumption that once the party have killed the Lion they will proceed to investigate the tomb. Perhaps it might be worth having one of the ghosts appear to them at that point and entice them in?

Encounter 1: I think perhaps the Lion may be a bit tough for the first encounter, since if we're dealing with complete novices they may well panic and throw everything they have at it, leaving nothing for later. Perhaps a (formerly-)hibernating Brown Bear (CR 4) instead?

Encounter 2: Having the turned skeletons run right to the Ogres has the potential of setting up a nasty three-way fight, which isn't ideal for a novice DM to run. But it might be appropriate.

Incidentally, the nature of the challenge here strikes me as ideal for that 'easy first fight' I would advocate. Maybe delete encounter 1 entirely, and have the PCs enter here?

Oh, and also, I suggest having a single initiative value for all enemy combatants in an encounter, rather than a seperate value for each one. It just makes running the encounter a lot easier, and isn't entirely inappropriate when the creatures are all identical.

On the positive side, including the rules for Turn Undead and Damage Reduction in the text of the adventure is a very nice touch.

Encounter 3: This is probably best fleshed out with suggested treasures for each class. Even better would be to have notes on how the treasures affect the stats of the most likely recipient.

Encounter 4: I have nothing to say here.

Encounter 5: Actually, I like having Ogres - it gives the DM a chance to get used to the Reach rules, which will matter when facing the dragon. Include a note as to the effects of Reach here.

Encounter 6: Not much to say here, either. Play-testing will indicated whether a Very Young or Young dragon is most appropriate - my guess would be the Young dragon as the earlier encounters have been fairly low EL for a six-person party of 5th level characters.

(That said, when I looked at the Draconomicon sample Juvenile Blue - my personal favourite - it looked decidely like a TPK all by itself against a group of that level.)

Opps. Please comment! ;)
Encounter 1) I wanted the druid or ranger to have some spotlight, if those players thought to choose that class. Hurm. Dire boar then?
Encounter 2) Initiative as 1 number. Not a problem, I guess I just put in my own bit of how I play. As for the running to the ogres - that should get a DM handwave that if the skeletons run that way they are just smashed to bits, as the ogres are poised to attack anything incomming.
Encounter 3) Well the weapons go kinda hand in hand with what the characters are, so its a bit of a chicken and egg as to which comes first.
I'll work on the revision tomorrow.
-cpd
 

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