What Should the Market for Magic Look Like?

[mmadsen]

Don't forget that, in the Victorian model, there's a glass egg on the counter that's always scrying part of the surface of Mars...

That would be from H.G. Wells' The Crystal Egg (which inspired a reference in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen):

There was, until a year ago, a little and very grimy-looking shop near Seven Dials over which, in weather-worn yellow lettering, the name of "C. Cave, Naturalist and Dealer in Antiquities," was inscribed. The contents of its window were curiously variegated. They comprised some elephant tusks and an imperfect set of chessmen, beads and weapons, a box of eyes, two skulls of tigers and one human, several moth-eaten stuffed monkeys (one holding a lamp), an old-fashioned cabinet, a flyblown ostrich egg or so, some fishing-tackle, and an extraordinarily dirty, empty glass fish tank. There was also, at the moment the story begins, a mass of crystal, worked into the shape of an egg and brilliantly polished.​

 

[Raven Crowking]

That would be from H.G. Wells' The Crystal Egg (which inspired a reference in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen):

There was, until a year ago, a little and very grimy-looking shop near Seven Dials over which, in weather-worn yellow lettering, the name of "C. Cave, Naturalist and Dealer in Antiquities," was inscribed. The contents of its window were curiously variegated. They comprised some elephant tusks and an imperfect set of chessmen, beads and weapons, a box of eyes, two skulls of tigers and one human, several moth-eaten stuffed monkeys (one holding a lamp), an old-fashioned cabinet, a flyblown ostrich egg or so, some fishing-tackle, and an extraordinarily dirty, empty glass fish tank. There was also, at the moment the story begins, a mass of crystal, worked into the shape of an egg and brilliantly polished.​

So it was, and Bennies to you!

(Also, a good idea of what a Victorian type magic shop might look like, eh?)

 

[mmadsen]

Probably similar to the markets for a seige engine, or precious gemstones or works of art.

If we look at those three examples, we may gain some insight.

There was no market for siege engines, just for siege engineers, because siege engines are not portable. A trebuchet, for instance, would be built on-site from local timber for a siege. An engineer could earn a significant retainer for serving the king -- and thus no one else.

Precious gems were, for a long time, at least in Europe, the province of specialists within a particular minority who knew better than to channel their wealth into easy-to-seize forms, like land, and who had strong group solidarity and trust, which made dealing in portable wealth safe.

Artists tended to produce works for wealthy patrons, on a contract basis. I don't know how often wealthy families ever sold any work they already had, but I assume it wasn't often, because it would signal a decline in status.

In fact, that would be a cool campaign premise -- the PCs are in the magic item procurement business, and either broker deals with people who have magic items versus people who want them, OR they adventure to uncover or retrieve magic items that people want, but are in dangerous places. In other words, they're not going ruin-delving for themselves, they're going so they can sell it to someone else!

Isn't that how the game has often been played? "A mysterious man approaches you in the tavern and asks you to recover the famed McGuffin of Whatchamahusit..."

 

[Umbran]

What the market looks like will depend, in large part, on the economy in which the market will operate. Specifically, how many people are there that are wealthy enough to buy the things?

If only the nobility and highest of merchants can afford magic, then the patronage model would work well - as for art and siege engines. In this case there's little market for the items themselves, but instead there's a market for those who can make them.

Note, by the core rules, this will be a bit quirky, in that someone making items must also occasionally go out and earn XP to spend. If you're using the power component options, though, this can work out easily - the wizard earns XP while adventuring to gather the components...

 

[Kaodi]

In Eberron, Thrane has an entire shadow organization dedicated to procurring magical items for the government, often by any means necessary, the Argentum.

 

[Raven Crowking]

In Eberron, Thrane has an entire shadow organization dedicated to procurring magical items for the government, often by any means necessary, the Argentum.

This seems to me to be a "realistic" government response to the existence of magic items. The number of people wealthy enough to own them isn't the only concern; what governments do to protect their ability to effectively govern is also important to consider.

Re: Power components, I would imagine that in a world using power components, the most common requirement for having someone craft the item would be for that person to procure the power components, either as part of or in addition to (the option I suggest) the price of the item.

(Again, a government that knows about power components will attempt to contain some or all of them. Also, most governments would attempt to levy a tax on the purchase of magic items, if for no other reason than the revenue it would bring in.)


RC

 

[Treebore]

Having developed a Kingdom level economy using Magical Medievel Societies: Western Europe (from Expeditious Retreat Press) and Gygax's "World Builder" books from Troll Lord Games I was blown away by how rich landed nobles apparently were. The most limiting factor on how wealthy they were was "employees".

Granted, these books may not accurately convert real life into game mechanics, but if your going to use a published system to develop your economic models their numbers are what your stuck with.

Anyways, to really answer thes questions about magic and wealth you have to flesh out the economics of your world or just be happy with "winging it". If your winging it there is no reason to worry about how realisitic it is. It just works.

To give you an idea, I worked out a 10 suare mile plot of land with great forests, good rivers and streams, and good soil for a noble Baron. Just 1500 acres of cultivated land could produce a million gold per year in profits. Unfortunately for him he needs 3,000 people to work that acreage. He only has 2,000 people on his lands. 200 hundred of them are his military. Another 40 are support for his military. Then there are house hold servants, police force, etc... So he only has 800 of his population available to work his lands. Even so he still makes several hundred thousand gold. More than enough to pay 4,800 gold to his farm workers, 10,000 gold for his military, 20,000 gold in maintenance of his properties/buildings, and 60,000 gold in taxes to his Empress (actually a Queen, but they keep the title of Emperor/Emperess from the times when it was an Empire), and have plenty of gold left over to invest or buy magic with. Aproximately 200,000 gold.

So once I worked this out, and then did several other Nobles in the same way, my perspective on economics has really changed.

Like I said, I doubt this is accurately reflecting "real life", but since it is the economic simulator I am going with, I have to work with the numbers it generates.

Besides, with businesses generating 100's of million to Billion's of dollars in todays highly developed economic world, maybe the numbers aren't horribly off.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Treebore,

Those numbers may well be (close to) correct. Of course, a lot of that money would be socked away, and a lot of that money would go to patronage as well. Part of that patronage would, no doubt, include the hiring of magic workers and artificers of various stripes, who would then work exclusively for that noble.

(We should also remember that much of that money would be in the form of perishable goods, such as grain, so that it wouldn't last if unused.)

It was also a common practice for a noble to travel, holding court in the lands of his vassals, as a means of siphoning off their wealth (and ensuring that they know he is keeping tabs on them). Many lords required military service from their vassals, or might accept scutage (payment to avoid sending men), which was another drain on resources.

Finally, many lords limited the size of the standing armies that their vassals could keep, primarily to prevent them from gaining enough power to overthrow the lord and take his place.

This last point is probably salient to how nobles in a mock-Medieval European world would view magic -- any lord in his right mind wouldn't allow his vassals to have more than about half what he does. Even if the PCs are freemen, this would hold, and the government in a given location would do its best to ensure that no one had the power to overthrow it. IRL, of course, governments have been overthrown and/or usurped, so no matter how strongly a government tries to limit the resources of the governed, failure is probably inevitable.

I tend to think of this sort of government as being rather like in The Godfather, where the Don protects his people and expects their fealty, but there are always people who want the power he represents. As the PCs first emerge, they make gifts of items they recover to the local level of government. As the PCs rise in power, the upper eschelons of government (and those factions wishing to depose the upper eschelons of government) seek them out and attempt to sway them into alliance. PCs who ally with no one have no friends, and are seen as potential threats to be eliminated at the first opportunity.

In this model, there are no magic shops, just individual artificers that are very often already attached to a given court, whose ruler you must sway to get any work done. A good part of the cost of an item would be gifting the ruler, who could then simply order the work done. What you owe is not so much gold as favours that can be called in at any time.

That's my take, anyway.

YMMV.


RC

 

[Imp]

I think the ascription of modern models of professional fairness and detachment to pseudo-medieval magic-item crafters is a little hard to swallow, or at least it might be interesting if it weren't assumed. In short, if you're buying a magic item, you're either explicitly in league with the crafters (hero works for the Brotherhood of Arch-Magi, therefore they let him buy their stuff) or implicitly placing yourself under their power (the item acts up if used against the ethos of the priests that made it, stops working entirely if used against them, or at least allows them to spy on you) or both... so whenever possible you want to be friends with the guy who makes your magic items, or more powerful than he is.

Such crafters would have to have an arrangement with the government, of course.

Either that or the extradimensional magic market run by inscrutable spirit creatures or the thieves' guild.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Nice post, Imp.

I'd have the interdimensional marketers also using the items to keep tabs on the powerful and also making items that further their interests. Heck, getting the items out there could even be the precursor to an invasion by creatures from the Far Realm......