What should the players be expected to know about the setting and their characters?
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
Finding people like you is the the problem
This is why I'm putting this group together slowly. I've got two players so far but won't start the game until I've got at least two more. And these are people I get along with and share similar gaming styles with so I'm hoping that will go a long way towards making the group work as a cohesive whole.Yes! That's absolutely and exactly the type of thing I'm after and want to encourage; that in-character level discussion about aspects of the milieu.
I would really love if I could get a group together that would do this but at the same time have the good sense to understand reasonable boundaries. Every time I've attempted this, there's always been one bad cookie who goes completely overboard and wants to be the god-king of the universe and who can't understand why I say no.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
I like to write 10 pages or so, and then put it away for a few days. Then I put on my nasty editor hat, and go through it. I'll select the best bits that fit into no more than 2 pages (and could be less). That's what the players get.
But it isn't a bad idea to take 4 or 5 bullet points out of the material, either. I've essentially done that before, making the bullet points the first part of the 2 page document, with the rest merely elaborating on what came before. And when I did that, not every player read beyond the bullet points right away, but most of them did eventually read the whole thing as a particular bullet caught their interest. Really, it was somehow more gratifyng that they dug out the document mid-session and quickly read, because of a half-remembered bullet.
But if you give them 5 pages, I can practically guarantee that more than half of it won't be worth their time to read, unless you heavily outlined and/or wrote five times as much material beforehand--and probably not even then.
Also, when I say go with the best material, I mean best. Don't get it in your head, for example, that they need to know background about the neighboring kingdom. If you've got something good enough on that kingdom, consider giving it to them. If you don't, let stuff about that kingdom arise in play.
Finally, it is not as if the leftover material was a waste of time. I mined it for later inclusion, comments by NPCs, general flow of the world in play, etc. It was useful to me running the game--merely not very compelling for a background handout. Not every good background idea you'll have makes good background text.
But it isn't a bad idea to take 4 or 5 bullet points out of the material, either. I've essentially done that before, making the bullet points the first part of the 2 page document, with the rest merely elaborating on what came before. And when I did that, not every player read beyond the bullet points right away, but most of them did eventually read the whole thing as a particular bullet caught their interest. Really, it was somehow more gratifyng that they dug out the document mid-session and quickly read, because of a half-remembered bullet.
But if you give them 5 pages, I can practically guarantee that more than half of it won't be worth their time to read, unless you heavily outlined and/or wrote five times as much material beforehand--and probably not even then.
Also, when I say go with the best material, I mean best. Don't get it in your head, for example, that they need to know background about the neighboring kingdom. If you've got something good enough on that kingdom, consider giving it to them. If you don't, let stuff about that kingdom arise in play.
Finally, it is not as if the leftover material was a waste of time. I mined it for later inclusion, comments by NPCs, general flow of the world in play, etc. It was useful to me running the game--merely not very compelling for a background handout. Not every good background idea you'll have makes good background text.
Crothian
First Post
It takes some work as the DM and you have to get a little lucky with the players. I've had players who when they get items like these share immediately and if that would have happened it would have lessened the impact. It helps to have players that are a little bit secretive.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
I have been in two games where the group was a whole was into the world. In both cases they were long term campaign that started as 'one-shot' adventures and built on player provided plots from there.
The key, imho, is to have the details useful. Who cares if the Dassani nobles enjoy a particular ale unless that can be used by the PCs. Otherwize you might as well start using 'evil undead forest #3'..as a recent modules description was summarized by a player of mine.
The biggest thing is that you need a group culture that looks for outlandish options.
Both previous games where known to be 'killer' games that pushed the players to their limits in tactical and strategic thinking.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk
The key, imho, is to have the details useful. Who cares if the Dassani nobles enjoy a particular ale unless that can be used by the PCs. Otherwize you might as well start using 'evil undead forest #3'..as a recent modules description was summarized by a player of mine.
The biggest thing is that you need a group culture that looks for outlandish options.
Both previous games where known to be 'killer' games that pushed the players to their limits in tactical and strategic thinking.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk
I sometimes had this problem running games set in Glorantha. It's a vastly detailed, rich world of mythology and culture - but if the players don't know anything about it that can quickly turn into a huge burden on the GM with little gameplay benefit.
So, a few thoughts, which may or may not be useful.
Try to show, instead of telling. Saying 'eating meat is forbidden in this city' makes me as a player go 'Huh?'. Having the city guard dragging some wretch through the streets while he's shouting he didn't eat any meat says the same thing, with more colour.
Even better if it's interactive. If they then spot the battered miscreant in the stocks in the town square later, the players can side with the law and pelt him, or maybe cause a distraction while the thief-type frees him. Or ignore him. At worse you've reinforced the setting, and you may have some crazy plot hooks suddenly spinning from an off the cuff encounter.
Background-wise, for the Glorantha reasons I like to keep my settings sketchy enough so players have room to pencil their own ideas in. I find players value input. If I tell a player they're from the town of Barrash on a fortified island in the Great Lake, well, they don't really care.
But if they tell me that, there's a bit more buy-in, especially if I follow up with more questions. Like 'Yeah? What's that place like? What's the thing you remember most about it? You still in touch with anyone there? What's happened to them? You ever think about going back?'
Players bring a setting to life more if they're given a stake in it, I think.
So, a few thoughts, which may or may not be useful.
Try to show, instead of telling. Saying 'eating meat is forbidden in this city' makes me as a player go 'Huh?'. Having the city guard dragging some wretch through the streets while he's shouting he didn't eat any meat says the same thing, with more colour.
Even better if it's interactive. If they then spot the battered miscreant in the stocks in the town square later, the players can side with the law and pelt him, or maybe cause a distraction while the thief-type frees him. Or ignore him. At worse you've reinforced the setting, and you may have some crazy plot hooks suddenly spinning from an off the cuff encounter.
Background-wise, for the Glorantha reasons I like to keep my settings sketchy enough so players have room to pencil their own ideas in. I find players value input. If I tell a player they're from the town of Barrash on a fortified island in the Great Lake, well, they don't really care.
But if they tell me that, there's a bit more buy-in, especially if I follow up with more questions. Like 'Yeah? What's that place like? What's the thing you remember most about it? You still in touch with anyone there? What's happened to them? You ever think about going back?'
Players bring a setting to life more if they're given a stake in it, I think.
Quickleaf
Legend
It sounds like you've got an immersive play style that only a few others in your usual gaming group share, and your answer is to limit who can play to those with a similar play style, is that right?
Are you shooting for a troupe style of play where the overall setting and story are more important than individual PCs? Would players be expected to run different characters during cut scenes, for example?
So are your games usually beer and pretzel style?
IMHO an individual reference booklet for each player is so far past the limits of what any DM would expect of their players...really that's just incredibly excessive. A lot of work on your part without any guarantee it will see use.
A far better approach would be to have the most story invested player be the group's chronicler and atthe start of each session have them recap for the rest of the group.
As an experiment, what would a Knowledge skill check mean in the context of your proposed play style? Your booklet sems to replace Knowledge checks. Would you consider giving the players some measure of say over what they learn?
I'd say if it doesn't fit in a 5 minute conversation withthe player and/or a paragraph, then save it for your game sessions.
One thing I tried in a short campaign was incrementally reasong game info in between sessions. These were beautifully done up 1-page handouts which I got good feedback about. It didn't overwhelm the players, was short enough for players pressed for time to skim read, and optional for the more hack n'slash types.
I'll echo the sentiment about repetition and add that any PROP you use will reinforce the setting, like music, an image, a physical puzzle, a really elaborate map, etc. Players remember that "cool" stuff which serves as a touchstone long after that session is past.
Exactly. As a DM you have a greater investment/capacity to hold setting information, particularly homebrew setting info. I'm an immersive DM and have a massive amount written for my homebrew setting over the years. But I know that when we get together, it's not about all that, it's about what happens at the table, the thrill of a plot secret revealed, the ongoing joke about the halfling's flaming pants, the look in the players' eyes when a huge mini hits the table. Reading some of my prose (no matter how well written) just isn't enriching to the play experience. Shaking down an informant RPed by the DM hamming it up IS.
That depends on what your campaign is about. What's the main conflict? What is the setting's motif/tone? Will there be lots of intrigue or dungeon-crawling?Are there limits on character creation? Extra options?
It also depends on your presentation goal. Is this going to be a recruitment flyer at your game store? A "setting bible" the group can access in between sessions? A chart that will be references during play? A prop which conceals a secret the players unravel over the course of the campaign? Will each PC have a secret they're trying to conceal from the group making the incriminating handout unique to each PC?
A
amerigoV
Guest
I think I have posted this before:
-=-=-=-
I wanted to share an concept that I have implemented in my campaign. I now start the gaming session with one or two roleplaying scenes. The scene is personalized for the player/PC and is not dice/abilities based, just pure roleplay (if a “skill” comes into play, I just presume they rolled a 15 on a d20). I limit each scene to 5 minutes.
I use the scenes to (1) show off the world and (2) give the players a chance to explore their PC’s personality in a “non-threatening” situation. It was really for the first function that I came up with the idea—there is just a ton of “neat” stuff in Eberron that a GM would never be able to show it all off in a campaign. It allows me to give out world flavor without having to force it into the plot. The second function just happened to be a nice by-product. My group has new PCs that they are getting used to playing. I tell the players that it does not matter how they react in this original scene, but to think about how the PC would react in the future.
Note that most scenes do have some pressure or tension, but that there generally is not the risk of a fight based on their choice/reaction (the PC is alone, and I do not want this to take too long). Also, the scene is usually is not tied directly to the current plot. If there is some tie in, the link is usually just informational. For example, one of the PCs had a scene from childhood with a group called Cloudreavers (out of control privateers). It gave her nice context when I then said that a Cloudreaver ship was in port in the main part of the session (it was in essence, a cutscene for her). Furthermore, she went to great lengths to add detail in her backstory about the Cloudreavers.
In theory, I would pull the player outside the room to run the scene because it is just for them. However, I run it in front of everyone (and make others stay quiet) and the player states at the end if they ever told the other PCs about this event. Allows me to get more information about the world across to more players.
So far, the players really like this idea. It has allowed me to show off the Dragonmarked Houses, convey some warforged “religious” options, detail Cloudreaver pirates/privateers, create a contact in mysterious continent of Xen’Drik, and show off parts of the massive city of Sharn. Everyone gets a few minutes of pure attention with no input from others. I tend to do two a session, rotating through the group. They last no more than 5 minutes each so as not to eat up a lot of time.
-=-=-=-
I wanted to share an concept that I have implemented in my campaign. I now start the gaming session with one or two roleplaying scenes. The scene is personalized for the player/PC and is not dice/abilities based, just pure roleplay (if a “skill” comes into play, I just presume they rolled a 15 on a d20). I limit each scene to 5 minutes.
I use the scenes to (1) show off the world and (2) give the players a chance to explore their PC’s personality in a “non-threatening” situation. It was really for the first function that I came up with the idea—there is just a ton of “neat” stuff in Eberron that a GM would never be able to show it all off in a campaign. It allows me to give out world flavor without having to force it into the plot. The second function just happened to be a nice by-product. My group has new PCs that they are getting used to playing. I tell the players that it does not matter how they react in this original scene, but to think about how the PC would react in the future.
Note that most scenes do have some pressure or tension, but that there generally is not the risk of a fight based on their choice/reaction (the PC is alone, and I do not want this to take too long). Also, the scene is usually is not tied directly to the current plot. If there is some tie in, the link is usually just informational. For example, one of the PCs had a scene from childhood with a group called Cloudreavers (out of control privateers). It gave her nice context when I then said that a Cloudreaver ship was in port in the main part of the session (it was in essence, a cutscene for her). Furthermore, she went to great lengths to add detail in her backstory about the Cloudreavers.
In theory, I would pull the player outside the room to run the scene because it is just for them. However, I run it in front of everyone (and make others stay quiet) and the player states at the end if they ever told the other PCs about this event. Allows me to get more information about the world across to more players.
So far, the players really like this idea. It has allowed me to show off the Dragonmarked Houses, convey some warforged “religious” options, detail Cloudreaver pirates/privateers, create a contact in mysterious continent of Xen’Drik, and show off parts of the massive city of Sharn. Everyone gets a few minutes of pure attention with no input from others. I tend to do two a session, rotating through the group. They last no more than 5 minutes each so as not to eat up a lot of time.
My solution for your problem is keeping it simple and known. Everyone knows Vikings, samurai, pirates. Using clichés works really well, because your players (not characters) know these clichés and can act accordingly.
Of course replicating Pirates of the Caribbean is also boring, so you should use the bullet points but with a known theme. Also, you should just combine two clichés into something known and new(<-This is actually in the GURPS GM book).
Examples:
Pirates of the Caribbean, but with steam power, airships and without all the mages and magic items.
Classic band of adventurers but in the Cold War.
Players will know what to expect because the presented elements are either known or simple. Trying to introduce your players into the complex and intricate world that mostly lives in your (GM's) head will only make them (players) less involved.
What also works, as mentioned above, is providing information when needed. Tell them about the myth with the big magic sword just before you start them on their quest for the big magic sword
Of course replicating Pirates of the Caribbean is also boring, so you should use the bullet points but with a known theme. Also, you should just combine two clichés into something known and new(<-This is actually in the GURPS GM book).
Examples:
Pirates of the Caribbean, but with steam power, airships and without all the mages and magic items.
Classic band of adventurers but in the Cold War.
Players will know what to expect because the presented elements are either known or simple. Trying to introduce your players into the complex and intricate world that mostly lives in your (GM's) head will only make them (players) less involved.
What also works, as mentioned above, is providing information when needed. Tell them about the myth with the big magic sword just before you start them on their quest for the big magic sword
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