What should the players be expected to know about the setting and their characters?

[IronWolf]

I think it can be difficult to get everyone into the immersive campaign. Even in our group people can be there for different things. And sometimes ones involvement in the campaign will vary based on time they have outside the campaign as well. Lots of time on their hands and they become immersed. Just a little time and they show up and play, but are not as immersed.

I think often the best case is to hope you get some players who are interested in immersing themselves in the campaign and work with those. For the others who at least show up reliably, play the game, but maybe not quite as immersed - just roll with it.

 

[Greg K]

When I run, I expect my players to read the following:

1. the overview which covers the deities and the synopses of the various nation/cultures to help them narrow their choices for a culture. Some examples:

Meridian: An island of voodoo practicing dark elves. They produce sailors of great renown. Unfortunately, this skill is too often applied to piracy leading others to distrust them.

Favored Classes: Rogue, Shaman, Sorcerer


Iss'nath: a grassland region inhabited by primitive clans of plains-dwelling lizardmen.

Starting Classes: Bard (variant: Savage), Barbarian, Barbarian (variant: Hunter), Rogue(variant: Wilderness), Ranger, Shaman, Sorcerer


2. The culture/nation sheet. for the culture/nation they choose This is a more in-depth overview. This resembles an RMSS Culture Sheet in terms of information. However, it also includes naming conventions, sample names, the names of some key npcs and key organizations, and a couple of lines about some notable places and important recent events.

3. Specific information/ changes about their race and class. For example, cleric players need to know what is expected by the character's deity, trappings, their list of spells which is tailored by deity, and any other class features tailored to their choice of deity (e.g., specific creatures that can be summoned by planar ally)

Usually, the above results in 3-5 pages to be read unless the player wants to read anything not related to their character. In addition, I expect the players to read

4. General house/campaign rules not related to class and race. This is, generally, presented in bullet form with references to Unearthed Arcana and third party products. However, it also includes a list of banned supplements, feats, spells,

 

[Quickleaf]

I've completed my first draft. Fifteen pages is too long, right?

That depends on how many words per page...

No seriously, you're joking right?

 

[DragonLancer]

I've completed my first draft. Fifteen pages is too long, right?

Just a little. I hope you're joking.

You want three or four pages (standard font size) max really.

 

[Kzach]

That depends on how many words per page...

No seriously, you're joking right?

About 250. And no, I'm not joking. I'd also would not be joking if I said that was just the introduction. I guess I have a lot of work to do to figure out what's vitally important, condense that down into points, and somehow relegate the rest to a repository for those who seek it out.

The funny thing is, that I'm not really getting bogged down in details; or at least I don't think I am. I'm trying to be as general as possible. It's just that with a homebrew setting, there is so much to cover. I have naming conventions (by race and sub-culture), coinage exchange rates and pieces, commonly known and held politics and prejudices, common laws, known ranks and status, commonly known histories, myths, legends, heroes, a custom calendar, seasons, and moons and their phases. All of which is something that should be known rather than be shown.

 

[chaochou]

It's just that with a homebrew setting, there is so much to cover. I have naming conventions (by race and sub-culture), coinage exchange rates and pieces, commonly known and held politics and prejudices, common laws, known ranks and status, commonly known histories, myths, legends, heroes, a custom calendar, seasons, and moons and their phases. All of which is something that should be known rather than be shown.

Okay, that's a lot of stuff. I'm curious as to what are you trying to achieve by putting all that information into play in one hit.

In my experience people concentrate on learning information once they realise they need it (once it has value). Before I play a game I have no idea what info I'm going to need, so setting information (for me) is mainly there to evoke atmosphere and colour.

Your players can learn about coins and coinage when they go to the market, about common law while passing the local gaol, about phases of the moon when a full moon or new moon are going to affect play.

I'm not saying your setting and all your work isn't great, I'm just saying it doesn't need to be handed out in one huge bang. My guess is you want to go straight into play with a very naturalistic feel, like the players can just absorb all this information and then get straight into the setting. I'm not sure I've ever seen that happen with the 'depth' you seem to be aiming for.

In your situation I'd be tempted to divide the information up into a dozen or more handouts, and introduce them as they become relevant. Or I might think about dividing up some of the 'knowledge' amongst the characters - so the priest knows myths, the wizard knows the moon cycle, the rogue know the laws, the fighter knows the politics, the barbarian knows tribal customs, ranger knows the seasons etc.

As ever, ymmv, just my thoughts, etc.

 

[Kzach]

I'm curious as to what are you trying to achieve by putting all that information into play in one hit.

Because it's all stuff that their characters would know and will come up constantly and consistently during play. Not only that, but it all has relevance to the plots that are going on all around them and that I wish them to engage in without me pushing them in any one direction.

I want the players to realise potential adventure hooks and plot progression as they play through their own deduction, rather than me contriving situations and clues to push them forward. Without a frame of reference to draw on, they can't make educated guesses or intelligent conclusions about where to go and what to do, or draw on interactions with NPC's and what they say or do that could be a clue.

If I say at the start of a session, "Ok, this, this, and that," about the setting, then I'm leading them down a road rather than them finding the path.

 

[chaochou]

If I say at the start of a session, "Ok, this, this, and that," about the setting, then I'm leading them down a road rather than them finding the path.

Yeah, cool, I get that. And I think what we're talking about is a question of pacing. I understand that the endpoint is for players to be fairly self-sufficient in terms of their understanding of the world.

I'm suggesting one alternate process to get them there, with information presented during relatively minor episodes which slowly primes the players for when things start to accelerate. A sort of foreshadowing, slowly introducing the themes, cultures, politics and setting ideas in-game for later, rather than before game for now.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=56189]Kzach[/MENTION]
So you're writing a setting bible. That's cool.

It's also vastly different from what the players should be expected to read at 1st level!

If you want to go the massive tome up front route and think your group would like it, well you know your group best. Go for it.

My advice is this: Show don't tell.

 

[Tuft]

During my many years of gaming I've noticed two factors in particular that influences player involvement, both with the world and their characters:

1) Expectation of survival.

If you have a high expectation of survival, then you dare to get involved. If you have a low expectation, then you stand off, so that it hurts less to lose the character.

In a way, it's like things were before modern medicine. When you had a high infant mortality, people did not dare to name their children until the dangerous first year had passed; you were less emotionally involved in an unnamed child than in a named one.

With a high expectation of survival, you can dare to be involved, make short- and long-term plans, work on in-game connections, building relations, making guild careers, constructing castles and cities...

Making all those things requires a lot of work, emotional involvement, and planning - things that you don't want to invest in if its too easy to lose them.

Another simile: you don't build elaborate sand castles where you expect bullies to come any minute to stomp them flat.

2) Miniature sandboxes aimed at the "normal" world.

Allow your players time to make the kinds of things mentioned above, and to make them do it on their own terms and on their own initiative. Let them do things such as interacting with friendly NPC:s: acquaintances, friends, family, neighborhoods, making civilian careers, competing for the best musician or artist in the country - anything that creates ties to the civilian society. Make people know them or having heard of them by their reputation, and greet them by name. Allow them to set their own world interaction goals, and give them the time and the means to achieve them.

If they are a bunch of anti-social individuals that just trudge from dungeon to dungeon, only interacting with "civilian" society when resupplying, then don't expect much involvement in the world.


Lots of source material does not create involvement; interaction, expectations of being able to influence the world and of fulfilling long time goals and long time plans does.