What should the Realms Lose?

[delericho]

The same thing happened to the Dark Sun setting.

Then someone wrote an official five book series that... That was a Dark Sun Shattering Event.

It was actually worse than you described. The first book in the Prism Pentad came out at the same time as (or perhaps within a month of) the very first boxed set, and immediately changed some of the key premises of the setting. By the end of that very first series, the world was very different from the setting as described in that first boxed set.

And, sadly, it went from being a setting I found very compelling to one I would have no interest in running over the course of those few novels. Stupid, stupid decision.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I'm not certain it needs to "lose" anything.

I mean, Forgotten Realms is mindbendingly popular. I personally don't have much use for it, but it seems that I am in the vast minority.

I'm not sure why--with a half million other settings out there--one that is found to be superior by the overwhelming majority of the gaming public needs to be changed at all to meet my needs.

I mean honestly, if I want a setting to look like Conan's Hyborian Age, I'm pretty sure I don't need Forgotten Realms to be tuned to that particular station.

So yeah, leave it be...folks are happy with it in droves.

 

[Neil Bishop]

It's not just a question of what to lose but what it needs.

FR needs an introductory product that shows how to set a campaign there. Basically, something like a small adventure path set in a "un-novelled" region of the world. Throw in some history, some power groups etc... and show new DMs what the attraction of FR is and how the world can be managed.

Key is the "un-novelled" part: it's time to set aside a region or regions for NO development in the novels. That way the DM can feel like it is his own little playground.

The first regional product for 3E was Silver Marches and one of the most interesting hooks in that book was to do with the rise of an orc kingdom. Of course, that plot hook then had to be resolved in a trilogy by R A Salvatore. Not such a smart move, WotC.

The first adventure for 3E was City of the Spider Queen. This massive dungeon crawl had a backstory that basically wasn't revealed for FOUR years as we endured an interminable wait for six hardcover novels to be published (one of which was written so well that the combat scenes between a fighter and a non-fighter actually described on several occasions that the fighter received four attacks on his turn). And if someone from WotC is reading remember these two things about the turgid dreck that was CotSQ:

- if you're going to publish an adventure with drow don't tie it so intimately to a novel-based, FR-specific backstory because you lose the non-FR DMs who might otherwise buy this product; and
- any lengthy Underdark adventure needs a place like Mantol-Derith as neutral ground and a place to trade and gather information.

The FR --GAME-- line needs to be managed with the context of an overall strategy in mind that takes into consideration the needs of FR DMs (and, to a lesser extent, players).

 

[TarionzCousin]

I'm not certain it needs to "lose" anything.

I mean, Forgotten Realms is mindbendingly popular. I personally don't have much use for it, but it seems that I am in the vast minority.

---

So yeah, leave it be...folks are happy with it in droves.

It's not just a question of what to lose but what it needs.

FR needs an introductory product that shows how to set a campaign there. Basically, something like a small adventure path set in a "un-novelled" region of the world. Throw in some history, some power groups etc... and show new DMs what the attraction of FR is and how the world can be managed.

Key is the "un-novelled" part: it's time to set aside a region or regions for NO development in the novels. That way the DM can feel like it is his own little playground.

The first regional product for 3E was Silver Marches and one of the most interesting hooks in that book was to do with the rise of an orc kingdom. Of course, that plot hook then had to be resolved in a trilogy by R A Salvatore. Not such a smart move, WotC.

So I read every single post in this thread. By the time I got to the second page, I was just itching to add my profound insights into the mix. Then I read the last two posts (quoted above) and they said what I was going to say--only better.

Despite that, I won't shut up quite yet.

1. I liked the original FR. I didn't like having the non-FR elements added to the world: Egypt, the Moonshae Isles, the Serpent Kingdoms, or Al Qadim hiding way down South. Nonetheless, the model apparently worked to make money so TSR and later WotC kept at it. Understandable.

2. I completely agree with Neil Bishop. Also, IMO, the Silver Marches is the best place to start a Level One FR Campaign (or Cormyr, or Waterdeep, or Halruua )

 

[Sunderstone]

What should the Realms Lose?

Elminster, Drizzt, the regular occurance of RSEs, about half of the current gods, most of the high level protagonist NPCs (who end up heroing and dealing with aforementioned RSEs whilst the PCs hold their stuff for them), novels as canon that effect the current timeline.

Thats my initial list - I'm sure I'll think of some more.

qft

 

[Kmart Kommando]

For all the high-powered NPCs and unique spells and junk like that, the Forgotten Realms setting is annoyingly boring. Most of the fiction set in the Realms isn't, but the game stuff... :\

Maybe if someone redid it, whipped up a good magic system that worked with it and hammered out an Iron Heroes version of the Forgotten Realms. Maybe that would capture the spirit of the fiction set there.

Dump the McMageMarts and carve out an empire with blood and steel.

 

[WarlockLord]

Kill Mystra. I hate how the gods can control ARCANE magic. Plus, we have too many redundant gods. Also, bring in some godless philosopher clerics. Eberron does deities much better, IMO.

Kill the high-level NPCs. They're annoying, they send you to do things, it goes like this.
Elminister: Go save the world.
You: Excuse me? You're the most powerful wizard currently in existence
E: Do it.

Or:
E: Hold my cloak. I'll save the world. There's beer in the fridge.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

If they're doing a little deicide, I wouldn't mind seeing Baravar Cloakshadow kill Gond and Garl Glittergold, and bury their stuff.

 

[jdrakeh]

They were most interesting in the 1e grey box, as envisionaged by Ed.

I agree with this 100%.

The further it got from that vision, the more of a hodgepodge disaster it became.

And this.

That's not entirely the fault of WotC; even TSR played its part.

This I take issue with. I think that TSR was responsible for most (if not all) of the truly detrimental changes to the Realms, with WotC trying very hard to clean up that mess and wisely deciding that it isn't possible -- short of a reboot.

 

[Cedric]

I'm not certain it needs to "lose" anything.

I mean, Forgotten Realms is mindbendingly popular. I personally don't have much use for it, but it seems that I am in the vast minority.

I'm not sure why--with a half million other settings out there--one that is found to be superior by the overwhelming majority of the gaming public needs to be changed at all to meet my needs.

I mean honestly, if I want a setting to look like Conan's Hyborian Age, I'm pretty sure I don't need Forgotten Realms to be tuned to that particular station.

So yeah, leave it be...folks are happy with it in droves.

I agree, it fills a great role...if you want something different, use something different. But leave the FR.