What spells do you get tired of seeing wizard players take? Cliche's, etc.

[Dannyalcatraz]

IMO, "% chance to learn spell" used as a method to restrict access to problematic spells would be nothing more than a cop-out.

Technically, its an abstract mechanical device that reflects a number of aspects of the difficulty of learning spells- how rare they are, how difficult they are to research, a student's ability to learn, a teacher's ability to teach...maybe even certain legal restrictions.

 

[Nightfall]

Read magic.

I prefer to write my magic. Especially in the blood of my enemies! *evil grin*

Mumhahahahaaa!!

 

[FireLance]

Technically, its an abstract mechanical device that reflects a number of aspects of the difficulty of learning spells- how rare they are, how difficult they are to research, a student's ability to learn, a teacher's ability to teach...maybe even certain legal restrictions.

No, only the student's ability to learn. The point to "% chance to learn" (IIRC, at least in the 1e PHB) was that if you failed the roll, you could not learn the spell, ever, even if you subsequently came across it in a scroll. Under that system, it was theoretically possible for a wizard to learn delayed blast fireball even though the basic fireball was something his brain could not comprehend.

I'm fine with it as a means of producing varied wizard PCs or emphasizing the mysterious and sometimes illogical nature of magic. Howver, I maintain that as a way of restricting problematic spells, it's a cop-out.

 

[Nightfall]

If people want to find a cop out, they will. It's how they find everything else I grit my teeth at.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

According to pg 10 of the 1Ed PHB, it was possible to get more than 1 chance at learning a spell. If your PC failed to learn it the first time, but after going through the whole list, your PC still did not meet your minimum # of spells/level for his Int, the process of checking which spells your PC could learn begins anew.

To me, this says there's more to it than merely the student's ability to learn.

 

[Nightfall]

Danny,

To me it also read "We figure you're just too darn stupid or too arrogant to learn this spell and thus we smite you with this effect so we the DMs can feel superior."

That, however, is just me.

 

[FireLance]

According to pg 10 of the 1Ed PHB, it was possible to get more than 1 chance at learning a spell. If your PC failed to learn it the first time, but after going through the whole list, your PC still did not meet your minimum # of spells/level for his Int, the process of checking which spells your PC could learn begins anew.

To me, this says there's more to it than merely the student's ability to learn.

Again, IIRC, you checked through the entire list of spells when the PC gained the ability to cast spells of the relevant level. So, the "minimum number of spells" was just the failsafe subroutine of the overall process of determining what spells your PC could ever learn.

 

[Nightfall]

*goes to make a flashy spell that really does nothing*

Now there's some useful way to spend XP!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmmm...methinks Nightfall has been drinking the firewater again...

 

[Nightfall]

Nah just happy to be closer to 15,500 than I was two months ago.