What spells do you get tired of seeing wizard players take? Cliche's, etc.

And this is why any arcane caster I ever play has the 'spell thematics' feat, and literally every spell they cast has a unique appearance; nothing ends up being normal or cliche, even if mechanically it might act the same. Min-maxers might scream in terror at my 'waste' of a feat, but it makes the game and the character more interesting, by letting me have a feast on the flavor of it all. :)
 

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Shemeska said:
And this is why any arcane caster I ever play has the 'spell thematics' feat, and literally every spell they cast has a unique appearance; nothing ends up being normal or cliche, even if mechanically it might act the same. Min-maxers might scream in terror at my 'waste' of a feat, but it makes the game and the character more interesting, by letting me have a feast on the flavor of it all. :)
I don't think you need to have to use a feat in order to justify having a unique appearance to your spells. In fact, I believe each spellcaster has their own unique appearance to their spells (if they desire), without any crunch assosiated, typically reflecting either a tradition/ingrained racial trait in which they were trained, or their own preferences (besides, Spell Thematics has it's own twinking uses anyways). It neatly explains why you have to make Spellcraft checks to identify every spell being cast or to prepare spells from another Wizard's spellbook, even though you might be capable of casting that exact same spell at the same exact level of power on your own. Each person has their own 'key' to their spells, so to speak, unique and customizable to a limited extent.

For example, an order of militaristic wizards trained by a organized kingdom might all have the same dramatic, flashy effects that acompany their spells, while a sorceress of a particular bloodline might have an insect theme running through all her spells, although she might not have a single insect-related spell in her actual repitoire.

Adressing the role of 'overused' spells, they are selected over and over again mostly because they are the most efficient and effective spells for the most situations. Magic Missile provides automatic hits without elemental resistances or evasion getting in the way, bypassing incorperality and cover. Fireball is the archtypical area of effect spell available that can deal decent damage at excellent range with good spread. Same goes for spells like Invisibility, Fly, and so on. The reason (or at least, a major reason) for this is that spell space for Wizards can get rather expensive, and Sorcerors must treasure each and every spell known like it's one of their children.

I recently learned this when designing a level 12 Transmuter: I spent an incredible amount of time packing his spellbook with tons of interesting and unusual spells (dipping frequently into the Spell Compendium), and it dug really deep into the pocketbook after a while, even after a purchase of a Bocob's Blessed Book to eliminate the ink costs. I had to give up a lot of the staples of high level spellcasters, like a staff for endurance, wands for utility, scrolls for rarely-used spells, and rods for metamagic. And even then, I wasn't able to get every spell I wanted for him. And this Transmuter was built for having the maximum number of spells possible, taking a Colligeate Wizard (Complete Arcane) to get extra spells each level.

Besides, people are comfortable with tactics that work and are familiar with. If it isn't broken, then don't fix it seems to be a reliable word of wisdom to me, anyways. Furthermore, such archtypical spells like Invisibility and Fireball are benchmarks from which designers work from; people usually won't make spells better than they are, and thus practically gaurantees that they'll be the spells of choice, unless group tactics or campaign/dm trends dictate otherwise (AKA specialized niches).
 

See, the fun part about Magic Missile is what it does and how versatile that is for adding your own flavor. For instance, a while ago, I was thinking about how to design a spell - the caster forms their opponent's figure out of shadow and cuts through it with an athame, then the wounds appear on that opponent's body. I was trying to figure out school and level and what-not, and then it hit me - Magic Missile does exactly that. It damages an opponent unless they can inherently block the magic (SR).

As far as Fireball, it's just fun. Blowing things up is what I call a good time. That said, it's not what I'd call an "automatic" spell, except for Evokers. There's quite a few alternatives to it which are equally effective.

The thing is that even if you avoid the "cliche" spells, Wizards have an effectively limited selection, due to cost constraints and limited slots to fill. Those "oddball" spells you picked will become commonplace once you start preparing them on a daily basis.
 

Funny, my group sees more spellcasters with ray of enfeeblement and enlarge person than magic missile. From an effectiveness perspective, enlarge person can deal more damage than magic missile, especially at low levels, and ray of enfeeblement can dramatically reduce the threat posed by melee-based opponents, especially in boss fights.
 

Emirikol said:
What spells do you get tired of seeing wizard players take? Ever get that groaning feeling of "oooh, wow, I'm so not inspired, lemme guess you're playing a wizard with the following spells..."

None, really.

I like it better, when the classics are used instead of weird new spells, that just exist, because someone needed to be different (and WotC needed to sell us more spells, that do the same thing as other spells). ;)

And if Fireball happens to be the best choice for a mid-level combat spell, then of course it will see more use than other spells. Wizards are a smart bunch, they tend to use optimum choices for the situation.

Bye
Thanee
 



Does anyone get tired of seeing a barbarian with a greataxe? A rogue with a chain shirt? Paladin in full plate armor? A dwarf with a dwarven waraxe? A monk who takes Stunning Fist?

These things get used because they're available to those classes and they happen to be some of the best choices available to those characters. If I have a hammer I'm going to buy nails not screws.
 

Still, the most effective wizards I've played (and seen played) tend to be specialist wizards who drop evocation in a hurry.

Nothing wrong with wizards with the normal spell list. But a themed wizard is more interesting than a colourless mage anyway. Those spells are the spells of adventuring wizards who need them for certain situations.

A themed wizard takes spells only in his theme but thinks outside the box to use them more effectively.

I once had a Diviner (going Alienist) who used Cause Fear, Scare, illusions and Summon spells to be far more effective in the game than even the barbarian was. The only wizard I've ever played, mind - it's just that you need to be far more creative in your use of the spells.

Not so effective in computer games, I've found. Or strait hack-em-ups.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
For me, then, its less about efficiency & survival and more about creative PC design and having fun- adding a bit of texture to the campaign world. I want my PCs to be memorable and somehow more "person-like" than the generic efficient min-maxed PC. With the exception of Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Acid Arrow, NONE of my mages have ever used any of the spells mentioned in this thread as being tiresome or boring...and never more than one of them.

I am the same as you. I still have to care about some versatility and survival because most of the other players and DMs will assume and sometimes pretend that my characters are "efficient". But if I had to put efficiency at the top of my concern always, I'd end up playing the same wizard over and over, with minimal variations.

That actually applies to other characters as well. It's not that I am bored of seeing barbarians with greataxes & power attack... they're fine. But when someone comes there and has a glaive-wielding barbarian, it's suddenly a little bit more interesting, even if maybe he's 5% less efficient.

For me it's not that efficiency itself is bad, but if it becomes the only principle to design a character, then yes it's quite pathetic IMHO.
 

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