Quartz
Hero
I disagree: keeping the spell as Concentration allows PCs an additional way to help the character targeted.
D&D 5E What Spells Would You De-Nerf? (and how would you change them...)
I disagree: keeping the spell as Concentration allows PCs an additional way to help the character targeted.
I'd change it as follows:
You attempt to turn one creature that you can see within range into stone. If the Targets body is made of flesh, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is Restrained as its flesh begins to harden.
The creature targeted by this spell must make another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If it successfully saves against this spell three times, the spell ends. If it fails saves three times, it is turned to stone and subjected to the Petrified condition for the Duration. It becomes Restrained after failing its first saving throw.
...
Maybe too strong. It is really nice against legendary resistances.
I could also require a ranged spell attack to land it instead of a saving throw.
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
Oh yeah, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, I changed this to an early access version where you can pick it up as a 4th level spell and it scales back up to the 8th level version. I think that it was only really a high level spell in early days because it could deal more than 10 dice of damage which gave it a higher level. Otherwise, currently it is to me just an alternate fireball spell and I was tempted to make it deal 8d6 necrotic damage and start it as a 3rd level spell.
Quartz
Hero
Think of it being used against a PC and you'll see that it's far too strong.
That's what you have the Fail x before succeed on y mechanic for. If the target makes the first save, that's it--no effect at all. If not, you have at least 3 rounds (probably more) to give them a save boosting effect, dispel the effect, get a Greater Restoration on them, etc. Much better than previous incarnations of the spell. If the PCs need that kind of training wheels, then maybe just make a scroll of Greater Restoration readily available (or an NPC that can cast it readily available). I mean, do the PCs get the same opportunity when faced with a Medusa or Gorgon?
That's another thing about 5e design, assuming Quartz is correct in surmising the reason for Flesh To Stone being the way it is, there are too many spells like this that are good for NPCs but rather lackluster in the hands of the PCs (I'm not even sure this spell is that good in the hands of an NPC, honestly). I'm not talking about world building spells like Illusory Script or Continual Flame either. The Power Word spells come to mind.
Helldritch
Hero
Spells from which I would (and did) remove concentration
Hunter's mark and Hex. These spells should've been class features and not spells.
Witch Bolt. Applying the damage should be a bonus action, enabling you cast a cantrip only.
All other spells are fine as they are. The goal of the concentration mechanic is to prevent the number bloating of bonuses. Concentration is the perfect tool for that.
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!
I would modify concentration on attack spells.
Concentration: "Whenever you are casting a concentration spell on the enemy you have two possibilities. 1) The target saves, the spell failed. Nothing new there.
2) The target fails its save. You can now concentrate on the spell. Whenever a target succeed a save to end the effect that you are concentrating on, you can use your bonus action on your turn to reactivate the spell on the target. That target must then make another saving throw or suffer the effect anew. You can repeat this bonus action for the remainder of the spell's duration. If a spell affect more than one target, and more than one saves at the end of its turn; you have to chose which target will stay affected by your spell. The other one can't be affected anymore. If you choose to use your bonus action to reactivate a concentration spell, you can only cast a cantrip on your turn." All other rules of concentration still apply.
So far, I have used this modification for the past two or three sessions (I have two groups so...) and I haven't seen any major drawback. Two cases arose. A hold spell against the players (two were affected) and one made his initial save and the second one failed her save. She stayed paralyzed for about 3 rounds of a 7 round fight. I described it as a battle of will where the evil fire priest was trying to impose his will on hers. The players did like the description and found it kinda of cool that although Hold Person was again a wee bit save or suck, that she could still act a few times. That Fire priest became the target of every single attacks the players had to make him lose concentration.
The second case has been with Phantasmal Killer cast by Lizy (the same player that had failed her save above). She cast it at a hill giant and the giant made one save on the third round. She used her bad mouth to utter a few words that I will not repeat here but then she remember that she could reactivate the spells. The giant failed the save and the spell took hold of him again. She even dealt the killing blow with the phantasmal killer (so I made the giant's head explode) she really liked this turn of events.
The second group suffered a TPK so we did not have a chance to see the new rule into action.
Edit: corrected the wrong words the auto corrector had put in...
Hunter's mark and Hex. These spells should've been class features and not spells.
Witch Bolt. Applying the damage should be a bonus action, enabling you cast a cantrip only.
All other spells are fine as they are. The goal of the concentration mechanic is to prevent the number bloating of bonuses. Concentration is the perfect tool for that.
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!
I would modify concentration on attack spells.
Concentration: "Whenever you are casting a concentration spell on the enemy you have two possibilities. 1) The target saves, the spell failed. Nothing new there.
2) The target fails its save. You can now concentrate on the spell. Whenever a target succeed a save to end the effect that you are concentrating on, you can use your bonus action on your turn to reactivate the spell on the target. That target must then make another saving throw or suffer the effect anew. You can repeat this bonus action for the remainder of the spell's duration. If a spell affect more than one target, and more than one saves at the end of its turn; you have to chose which target will stay affected by your spell. The other one can't be affected anymore. If you choose to use your bonus action to reactivate a concentration spell, you can only cast a cantrip on your turn." All other rules of concentration still apply.
So far, I have used this modification for the past two or three sessions (I have two groups so...) and I haven't seen any major drawback. Two cases arose. A hold spell against the players (two were affected) and one made his initial save and the second one failed her save. She stayed paralyzed for about 3 rounds of a 7 round fight. I described it as a battle of will where the evil fire priest was trying to impose his will on hers. The players did like the description and found it kinda of cool that although Hold Person was again a wee bit save or suck, that she could still act a few times. That Fire priest became the target of every single attacks the players had to make him lose concentration.
The second case has been with Phantasmal Killer cast by Lizy (the same player that had failed her save above). She cast it at a hill giant and the giant made one save on the third round. She used her bad mouth to utter a few words that I will not repeat here but then she remember that she could reactivate the spells. The giant failed the save and the spell took hold of him again. She even dealt the killing blow with the phantasmal killer (so I made the giant's head explode) she really liked this turn of events.
The second group suffered a TPK so we did not have a chance to see the new rule into action.
Edit: corrected the wrong words the auto corrector had put in...
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Here's the deal.
- Either Hunters mark is assumed on Rangers like Eldritch Blast is on Warlocks
- Hunters Mark doesn't count to spells known
- Ensnaring Strike, Flame Arrows Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, and Zephyr Steel Strike lose Concentration
- Hunters mark is not assumed known by all Rangers
- Hunters Mark is unchanged
- Ensnaring Strike, Flame Arrows Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, and Zephyr Steel Strike are buffed at least 2 dice up in size or number.
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My two main spell de-nerfs that I now use are for True Strike and Blade Ward. In both cases I changed the duration to 1 hour + Concentration (so that they both could be cast out of combat). Then the spell stays active in the caster's mind until they choose to release it to get the effect. Thus True Strike's advantage doesn't apply to the first spell they cast with an attack roll, the caster gets to choose what attack. So the wizard could throw a couple Firebolts to start with, and then save the Advantaged attack roll when they cast Chromatic Orb. Likewise for Blade Ward, the caster doesn't gain resistance to the first non-magical B/P/S attack they receive... the wizard gets to choose for themself which attack they take that gets to apply the ward. In both cases, once the effect goes off the spell is over and they then have to use an Action to get them back up.
What this does is give the wizard at least one "good use" out of both spells without having to spend an action in combat to activate them. They can activate one of them outside of combat and then just use their Concentration slot for it until the spell goes off. If they want a second True Strike or Blade Ward during the combat, then they'll have to use their Action to re-cast as normal.
This was the best way I could come up with to make both cantrips moderately useful without changing them over to Bonus action spells (thus guaranteeing their use on EVERY round, which I didn't want.) And I know that at least True Strike has been successful, as I had a new wizard player that seemed to be missing on their Orbs pretty frequently and getting discouraged, and this change gave him a little bit of sunlight.
What this does is give the wizard at least one "good use" out of both spells without having to spend an action in combat to activate them. They can activate one of them outside of combat and then just use their Concentration slot for it until the spell goes off. If they want a second True Strike or Blade Ward during the combat, then they'll have to use their Action to re-cast as normal.
This was the best way I could come up with to make both cantrips moderately useful without changing them over to Bonus action spells (thus guaranteeing their use on EVERY round, which I didn't want.) And I know that at least True Strike has been successful, as I had a new wizard player that seemed to be missing on their Orbs pretty frequently and getting discouraged, and this change gave him a little bit of sunlight.
I like your solution, especially for Blade Ward. For True Strike, I had followed the model of Guidance and Resistance model and just had an extra 1d4 waiting around to add to the attack roll of the casters choosing, but I had not thought to do the same with Blade Ward.
Is there some reason why you limited Blade Ward to non-magical attacks only? I believe the original does not have that restriction (I've always been rather miffed that Stone Skin does).
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