What to due about a stubborn DM

[Sir Devria]

Me and my group have started a new campaign and so far the adventures have been both fresh and very fun. The only down side is that they are also very very hard. Due to combats that are overwhelming or simply runing and adventure for to long (ie: used spells, potions, abilities ect.) twice a PC has lived only by obvious "fudging" of the dice. The other problem is that we are playing very virtuous characters and our DM has givin us no shortedge of bad events but whats wrong is that despite everything we do we still seem to always fail in some way. Our DM is acting as if even if we do stop whatever is wrong he will still make something bad happen anyways. The DM in question is a very old friend of mine and long time gaming pal and was always a PC in my campaign's. But at the slighteset mention of these concerns he became quite offended and is now being stubborn. Me and the other PC's don't know what to due. Please any advice is welcome.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I totally agree; you're in an intolerable position.

No way should the dice have been fudged.

Seriously, though, it sounds like your DM wants to run a gritty, Black Company- or Song of Ice and Fire-style game and you (and the other players) want a Lord of the Rings- or even Dragonlance Chronicles-style game. As I prefer the former to the latter, I'm probably not the right person to ask. :\

 

[DarrenGMiller]

There is no supbstitution for communication between the players and the DM. If that does not exist, then there is no hope for the game. Don't be adversarial. Don't be accusatory. Just try to open a dialogue about the direction of the game. If you are really friends, hopefully you can work through it together.

DM

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I totally agree; you're in an intolerable position.

No way should the dice have been fudged.

Seriously, though, it sounds like your DM wants to run a gritty, Black Company- or Song of Ice and Fire-style game and you (and the other players) want a Lord of the Rings- or even Dragonlance Chronicles-style game. As I prefer the former to the latter, I'm probably not the right person to ask. :\

But even in a so-called "grim n' gritty" campaign shouldn't the player have some hope of succeeding? Also isn't it the players game too? Don't they have some say in the 'flavour' (for lack of a better word) of the campaign?

 

[MadMaxim]

I'd talk to the DM and voice my concerns regarding the campaign's lethality level. Challenging encounters are exciting, if the PCs are able to put up a fight. Otherwise, the monsters will just walk all over you and I fail to see the fun in that.

 

[Crothian]

But even in a so-called "grim n' gritty" campaign shouldn't the player have some hope of succeeding? Also isn't it the players game too? Don't they have some say in the 'flavour' (for lack of a better word) of the campaign?

Have you told the DM you aren't enjoying it? It could very well be that he's running the game and thinks that the players are havign a great time. Unless your Dm is one of those mind readers I think you'll have to actually talk to him.

 

[merelycompetent]

If you can't talk to the DM about your concerns with the game and get a reasonable response, then you're going to be miserable.

Having said that, "talk to the DM" means a conversation like this, using a non-confrontational tone of voice:

Wait until a day or two after the game - certainly not the day before, or day of, the game. "Frank, I've got a few concerns about the game. It seems that no matter what we do, we're always getting our butts kicked. Even when we succeed in thwarting the bad guy, we never really get a victory. Am I missing something here?"

Also consider the following:
A) If your characters don't stop to rest and recover in a relatively secure location, they'll get worn down by the opposition.
B) If your characters aren't built for combat, you need to hire/acquire some NPC henchmen to fill in. The various Summon/Nature's Ally spells are good for this, too.
C) If your DM is running an apocalypse, and your expecting heroic fantasy, then there is a fundamental disconnect in the game. Better find out now and bow out if necessary before it blows up.

Good luck.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

But even in a so-called "grim n' gritty" campaign shouldn't the player have some hope of succeeding? Also isn't it the players game too? Don't they have some say in the 'flavour' (for lack of a better word) of the campaign?

Players should absolutely have some hope of succeeding, and it's definitely their game, too. I was simply stating my preference.

My preference, in this case, is for games where you have to be at LEAST two of lucky, skilled and smart to survive a combat encounter.

PCs are usually outnumbered and outgunned, and their opponents have a plan that's either a) proven effective against other opponents, or b) specifically designed to counter the PCs as a threat. The latter occuring only later in the campaign when the enemy have intelligence on PC capabilities.

PCs are expected to slit the throats of sleeping enemies, use unsuspecting NPCs as bait (albeit hopefully with the intent of trying to save them), set ambushes, play politics with rival factions, and 'persuade' prisoners to give up critical info on enemy movements. Even if they do all of that, they on their own are not going to stop the enemy; they can only affect a relatively small part of a larger conflict.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Me and my group have started a new campaign and so far the adventures have been both fresh and very fun. The only down side is that they are also very very hard. Due to combats that are overwhelming or simply runing and adventure for to long (ie: used spells, potions, abilities ect.) twice a PC has lived only by obvious "fudging" of the dice. The other problem is that we are playing very virtuous characters and our DM has givin us no shortedge of bad events but whats wrong is that despite everything we do we still seem to always fail in some way. Our DM is acting as if even if we do stop whatever is wrong he will still make something bad happen anyways. The DM in question is a very old friend of mine and long time gaming pal and was always a PC in my campaign's. But at the slighteset mention of these concerns he became quite offended and is now being stubborn. Me and the other PC's don't know what to due. Please any advice is welcome.

If this guy is a friend, then you should be able to talk with him without his guard going up. On the other hand, DMs who've homebrewed the campaign whole cloth are often a little touchy about criticism.

So of course, try to explain your point first in a non confrontational way.

If that doesn't work...try this: if you're having a combat sprung upon you and your PC is down to next-to-nothing, run. Just refuse to fight. Climb in a tree, hide in a hole, whatever. If he takes the fight to you anyway, sacrifice your character. Repeat until he asks you whats up. Then tell him (and talk metagame here) "well, you've got this game set up so we can't win. So I'm not gonna even try."

Also try running your character as not quite so virtuous. Tell the DM that virtue is obvoiusly not getting you anywhere.

Thats all I've got.

 

[Harmon]

Laugh about the hard ships. "We killed on the bad guys and still the Prince died? Opps," big smile on your face. then high five your other Players "cool fight though!"

Make up five back up characters. When your character dies refuse to be brought back. Name the first character Alphan, the next Betalla, etc. Very little back ground for each progressive character.

Forget about your loses- "the prince died? Oh, ya- that was after that cool fight though right? Back when I was playing Gammaric? He died? Emm- I guess there have been so many times that we lost I just forgot."

Tell your GM howmuch you enjoy the cool stuff he comes up with, but that Princess dying really bummed you out. "The Prince died too?"

When he asks what is up- tell him. Explain- do we have to lose something every time? It sucks, its to much like life. Its like having a sexual dream with Victoria Pratt and having her turn you down.