What to play on National D&D day

Patlin · Oct 12, 2006

The warlock I want to try is a Xeph, with PBS at 1st level and Psionic Shot at 3rd. With a medium base attack bonus, touch attacks, and Dexterity as my top stat (including a +2 racial bonus) I'm willing to do without precise shot. I'd rather have extra damage.

javcs · Oct 13, 2006

Eldritch Blast itself has no DC - it's a straight ray attack, no saves required, but some of the Essence Invocations require saves, I believe that you'd need to take SLA focus for each different Essence Invocation.

Patlin

Precise Shot is always useful for an ranged attack specialist.

Just try saying that when you need every point of attack bonus you can get. Your extra damage won't help you when y'can't hit the target.

At the absolute best, your Dex is a 20, that's +5, BAB +2, and when within 30ft another +1. That's +7 and within 30ft +8. If the target is in melee, that drops to +3 and +4, respectively. Not that impressive, especially since the Party's range attack specialist scout type will have PBS and Precise Shot, so their attack bonuses will stay the same, +6 and +7, unless it's a ranger in which case it'll be +7 and +8, and the ranger will have rapid shot, if they're human, they'll have another feat, possibly manyshot, the non-ranger scout will have rapid shot too, which means even when they're shooting at the same target in melee as you, their attack bonus will be better even when using rapid shot/manyshot.
I should also point out that +3 and +4 are level one NPC ranges for attack bonuses. I could build, using the elite array, a human NPC warrior with a +4 and +5 attack bonus with their ranged weapon of choice. Dex 15 (+2), BAB +1, Weapon Focus(ranged weapon of choice) (+1), and Point Blank Shot (+1), that's +4 and +5 when within 30ft, the non-human drops either WF or PBS, it'd be a matter of preference, and their style/purpose. The guard on top of the 30ft high wall or 30ft up in a tower is going to go with WF, they'd rather have +1 all the time, the close-in ambusher will have PBS, they'd rather have +1 attack and +1 damge.

Glyfair · Oct 13, 2006

Out of curiosity, what event is this for? The "standard" Worldwide D&D Day has pregenerated characters for the adventure. Of course many venues (if not most) are running other events

What are the character generation rules for this particular event?

Patlin · Oct 13, 2006

javcs said:
Eldritch Blast itself has no DC - it's a straight ray attack, no saves required, but some of the Essence Invocations require saves, I believe that you'd need to take SLA focus for each different Essence Invocation.

I believe the class text specifically overrides this, which would otherwise be extremely logical.

javcs said:
Patlin

Precise Shot is always useful for an ranged attack specialist.

Just try saying that when you need every point of attack bonus you can get. Your extra damage won't help you when y'can't hit the target.

At the absolute best, your Dex is a 20, that's +5, BAB +2, and when within 30ft another +1. That's +7 and within 30ft +8. If the target is in melee, that drops to +3 and +4, respectively. Not that impressive, especially since the Party's range attack specialist scout type will have PBS and Precise Shot, so their attack bonuses will stay the same, +6 and +7, unless it's a ranger in which case it'll be +7 and +8, and the ranger will have rapid shot, if they're human, they'll have another feat, possibly manyshot, the non-ranger scout will have rapid shot too, which means even when they're shooting at the same target in melee as you, their attack bonus will be better even when using rapid shot/manyshot.
I should also point out that +3 and +4 are level one NPC ranges for attack bonuses. I could build, using the elite array, a human NPC warrior with a +4 and +5 attack bonus with their ranged weapon of choice. Dex 15 (+2), BAB +1, Weapon Focus(ranged weapon of choice) (+1), and Point Blank Shot (+1), that's +4 and +5 when within 30ft, the non-human drops either WF or PBS, it'd be a matter of preference, and their style/purpose. The guard on top of the 30ft high wall or 30ft up in a tower is going to go with WF, they'd rather have +1 all the time, the close-in ambusher will have PBS, they'd rather have +1 attack and +1 damge.

I agree it's usefull. Most feats are. I just don't think it's critical. An extra 2d6 damage much of the time is also usefull, and in my opinion more so. Consider:

Some portion of the time one or more of your enemies (or parts of one or more of your enemies if they are big) are not engaged in melee. This allows you to avoid the -4 penalty even without precise shot.

When precise shot is usefull, you're still doing OK relative to the Scout or Ranger even without precise shot. Let's say your enemy is wearing a normal, not enchanted chain shirt. His armor class is at least 4 points lower for you than for a bowman. If he's in splint mail, at least 6 points lower.

An Ogre has an AC of 16. Only 8 against your eldritch blast. Even if you take the in melee penalty, you need to roll a 4 to hit if you are within 30', using the numbers you supplied. You're 10% more likely to miss than the fellow with precise shot, but on hits you do an average of 7 more damage... if I recall correctly, that around twice as much damage as the fellow who took precise shot instead of psionic shot.

A gnoll is AC 15, or touch AC 10. Same with an Owlbear.

So I agree with your fundamental premise... precise shot is always usefull for a ranged combatant. I just don't think it's usefull enough for a Warlock to compete with the other available choices at low level.

KarinsDad · Oct 13, 2006

Patlin said:
I agree it's usefull. Most feats are. I just don't think it's critical. An extra 2d6 damage much of the time is also usefull, and in my opinion more so. Consider:

The issue there is that it is not "much of the time" at low level.

The problem with Psionic Shot is that at low level, it tends to be one shot per battle.

+8 at point blank against most foes who have a touch AC of 10 yields 95% * 7 extra points of damage on average or 6.65 extra points (6.3 points if not point blank).

+8 at point blank against most foes who have a touch AC of 14 (no precise shot) in melee yields 20% * 7 points of less damage on average or 1.4 less points * 1.05 (critical) = 1.47 less points.

And, as touch ACs go up, the increased damage for Psionic Shot goes down. The decreased damage for not having Precise Shot stays the same.

Since it is a full round action to get back Psionic Focus (which wastes time where the Warlock could be shooting), it would take about 4 in combat shots to make up for the extra damage.

This also assumes that the extra damage from Psionic Focus just barely takes out an opponent or damages an opponent without taking him down. In the cases where it is overkill (i.e. the opponent is taken to high negatives or more negative than the PF added in points), not having Psionic Focus and having Precise Shot works out much better.

Now, this is not necessarily the case at high level. At high level and Psionic Meditation, it is just a move action to regain focus and focus can more easily be regained. Plus, Precise Shot is not always needed any more since the PC often has a 95% chance to hit against a lot of foes a lot of the time, with or without precise shot.

But at low level, this can be a suspect strategy for a class than can do damage with touch attacks. It is less of a suspect strategy for a class that does damage with normal attacks because taking the round of combat out to regain the focus is not as much a waste of an action (i.e. if you have a 50% chance to hit, you would have missed half the time anyway). With ranged touch attacks, it's often just better to blast away every round.

DungeonMaester · Oct 13, 2006

Thanks for all the advice guys, but I think im set on feats, going with spell like abilty meta.

Vop's SS and Weapon fienece Ray will help hit with a touch attack, coupled with improved fient maybe. At higher levels I'll take the spell like abilties to power them up, and maybe extra Invocations to add to my list too.

Thanks,

---Rusty

Patlin · Oct 13, 2006

You got me -- I always forget that gaining focus is a full round action till you get Psionic Meditation. That is, of course, the very next feat on my list.

Still, I think I can live with using the feat once per battle at levels 3, 4 and 5 to get the bonus on most attacks for levels 6 and up. Since you can't make a full attack with Eldritch basts anyway, that move action ought to get you something good on rounds where you don't need to move.

Good luck in your game, DungeonMaster!

KarinsDad · Oct 13, 2006

Patlin said:
You got me -- I always forget that gaining focus is a full round action till you get Psionic Meditation. That is, of course, the very next feat on my list.

Still, I think I can live with using the feat once per battle at levels 3, 4 and 5 to get the bonus on most attacks for levels 6 and up. Since you can't make a full attack with Eldritch basts anyway, that move action ought to get you something good on rounds where you don't need to move.

True.

Course, Psionic Meditation requires Wis 13. And, it's a DC 20 Concentration check to regain a focus, so even at level 6, the odds of doing that may be just a little better than 50% (assuming Concentration is a Warlock class skill, I do not have my CA book here). And, even with Psionic Meditation, regaining focus still provokes Attacks of Opportunity.

But like I said, it's a pretty good strategy at higher levels.

Patlin said:
Good luck in your game, DungeonMaster!

Ditto.

DungeonMaester · Oct 13, 2006

Thanks every one. This is what I got so far.

Robert Terrance Belsith CG Warlock
Str 12+1
Dex 18+4
Int 12+1
Wis 12+1
Con 12+1
Cha 18+4

Feat
Sacred vow
Vop
WF?
Nymph's Kiss (bonus exalted)
(bonus Exalted)

Flaw?

Invocations
elderic blast
Fly
Baleful utterance

Thoughts?

---Rusty

Patlin · Oct 13, 2006

KD:
Well, as long as you're getting good at concentration anyway...

SRD said:
You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity.

The DC of the check is 15 (plus the spell’s level, if casting a spell or using a spell-like ability defensively). If the Concentration check succeeds, you may attempt the action normally without provoking any attacks of opportunity.

Gaining psionic focus is a use of the concentration skill, I don't see why you can't use the skill defensively.

It's definitely a strategy that works better at higher levels though, you're absolutely right about that.

DM:
Do you really get a lesser invocation (which the Fly one is) by 3rd level? I'm pretty sure (though also without my book on me) that you get three least invocations before getting a lesser, and you get fewer than one invocation per level.