What use for OSRIC?

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Grazzt said:
Not quite accurate. If WotC/Hasbro thinks it threatens their IP (regardless of whether said project makes lots of money, no money, or very little money), then they will take action. (They have to...laws and stuff regarding IP)

Correction duly noted.
 

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pogre said:
Is it possible for a publisher to make an adventure with dual stats for OSRIC and d20? Or would the use of the d20 license forbid the use of OSRIC?


The OGL allows for the terms, descriptions, and rules in the SRD to be used and modified. The d20 license allows use, but doesn't allow for modification, of the terms, descriptions, and rules contained in the SRD. Thus, I don't believe an adventure with stats for both would be legal if it had the d20 logo on the front.

Edited for clarity.
 
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pogre said:
Is it possible for a publisher to make an adventure with dual stats for OSRIC and d20? Or would the use of the d20 license forbid the use of OSRIC?

Looking for opinions. I know most of you aren't lawyers - no need to preface your comments. I will ask someone with intellectual property as a specialty before I actually go forward with something like this.

I'm not sure that they're fully compatible, pogre, since OSRIC---like other OGL games---includes rules in it that aren't permitted under the d20 STL (character creation, for example). However, if you're not publishing the OSRIC rules, and are merely publishing an adventure, say, then as long as the content in the adventure also conforms to the d20 STL requirements, I don't see why a product couldn't be dual-statted OSRIC/d20 (or C&C/d20, or True20/d20, etc.) also. I'm not a lawyer, but those are my thoughts (and they aren't legal advice, of course!).
 



Well if one were publishing an adventure, and OSRIC already gives info on characters and monsters and stuff, I could see a "no stat" OSRIC adventure where the text reads:

12. You enter the room and see two ogres. They snarl and attack you.

And in the back of the module it says "For ogres, minotaurs, etc., just use the OSRIC stats".

If that is the case, then of course the purchaser of that module could also use other stats, from other games.

Or at least so my diseased brain thinks. :)
 

Geron Raveneye wrote:

Nice start for a troll.

Not trolling at all. Just looking for honest answers since the developers refuse to address these issues elsewhere. I knew they'd be addressed here. That's the bottom line. All discussion about legal issues or reevance at DF is stifled due to political affiliations and favoritism. If anyone doubts me, then feel free to go read the threads there.

What need, or relevance, does any roleplaying system have beside to those who like to play with it?

That's not my question though. I've never denied their right to publish and use OSRIC. My point is that it serves no purpose to the OOP community(ies) that isn't already served in other ways using other publishing systems or methods. So why bother?

Also, there are no legal questions surrounding it, as yet WotC has to actually say something in that regard that comes even close to a "legal question".

There are indeed legal questions. More than a few people believe it violates certain copyright laws or IP laws. WOTC is indeed looking into it, it is being investigated by them. These things don't happen overnight. Until there is a definitive answer, there are some troubling questions that have been raised elsewhere.

And lastly, there's absolutely no call to Stuart Marshall, Joe Browning of Expeditious Retreat Press, or Matt Finch, the author of the first adventure for OSRIC, unsavory. Makes me wonder what reasons you have to come up with something like that.

Regardless of how you feel about the crowd surrounding and developing OSRIC, they do have a certain reputation, and others agree. And in any case, that is all irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that certain publishers have indeed warned against being involved with OSRIC due to the reputation of some of the developers and promoters and their internet history of controversy. Now you can boil that down to politics if you like, but it is a fact that it exists. And I'll be the first to admit that many of those who'd write for OSRIC would probably not be writing for the publishers who've blacklisted OSRIC-affiliated members, in which case it's a moot point. However, for some aspiring authors, it certainly may become a problem, and then there's the legal issue that has not been resolved. So it is a legitimate question/issue.

So once again, my point is that OSRIC has been billed as some sort of saving grace that allows people to publish 1E-compatible material. However, that can already be done any number of ways without resorting to OSRIC. Hence, it serves no useful purpose. It doesn't allow anything new or revolutionary as it's being billed as doing. It's like trying to reinvent the wheel, the way I see it.

Finally, P&P said:

Actually, it isn't "a lot of heat" when you look at it. I've had "heat" from two posters; several other people have had concerns, but these have been legitimate, expressed politely, and the answers graciously accepted.It's just that those two posters happen to be very vocal.

That's not the case at all. The fact of the matter is that those who've questioned its utility or legality at DF and elsewhere have been attacked, and those attacks are tolerated at DF due to politicized cliques that exist there. And more than "two vocal posters" have questioned it. Dissenting opinion at DF tends to result in blacklisting and personal attacks, hence most people there are afraid to speak their minds.

Actually, there has been a legal challenge. A bloke called Traveller on Dragonsfoot gave me a so-called "30 day notice" to take it down... he wasn't affiliated with WOTC or an attorney or anything, he was just a poster who doesn't like OSRIC.After I'd finished laughing at him, he shut up and went away.

Well that's certainly one way to spin the truth. In reality, he was banned from DF for "rocking the boat", once again due to politicized cliques running the place. He didn't "go away", he was run off DF for daring to speak his mind. Of course, he doesn't care. But he did what he said he'd do. He reported it to WOTC and now it's in WOTC's hands.

So if we can put aside all the political nonsense and spin doctoring, my point is still the same. What is it about OSRIC that is so revolutionary when I can easily publish 1E material in any other number of ways? Yes, it is an alternative to other ways, but it still does not allow me to do anything I cannot already do. And of course, there are the "political" realities of various other publishers' attitudes towards it, and the still-lingering legal questions.
 

Halaster Blackcloak said:
My point is that it serves no purpose to the OOP community(ies) that isn't already served in other ways using other publishing systems or methods. So why bother?

Because they want to. Gamers like to create stuff. And because they (and apparently others that like OSRIC) disagree with you that their needs are being fully met in other ways.

I hope that they are allowed to continue, as I look forward to seeing what they come up with. I will use it for C&C ends, but I certainly welcome others using it for whatever system they like, including OSRIC itself.

So if there is nothing wrong with it (and I don't think that there is - IMHO, the law will be the final arbiter of course), and it directly benefits *me* to have them do this (it gets people publishing C&C compatible stuff that don't want to publish for the C&C system - stuff which I will then cheerfully adapt to the C&C system) then it serves a purpose for *me*.

I will stick to C&C, but I definitely want OSRIC to prosper, for my own C&C-fulfulling purposes. GO OSRIC! :) (Waves pom-poms)
 

Halaster Blackcloak said:
Regardless of how you feel about the crowd surrounding and developing OSRIC, they do have a certain reputation, and others agree. And in any case, that is all irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that certain publishers have indeed warned against being involved with OSRIC due to the reputation of some of the developers and promoters and their internet history of controversy. Now you can boil that down to politics if you like, but it is a fact that it exists. And I'll be the first to admit that many of those who'd write for OSRIC would probably not be writing for the publishers who've blacklisted OSRIC-affiliated members, in which case it's a moot point. However, for some aspiring authors, it certainly may become a problem, and then there's the legal issue that has not been resolved. So it is a legitimate question/issue.
My good sir, since you bandy about words such as "blacklisted" and "controversy" would you be so kind as to provide references to these? Can you show where "certain publishers" have made any warning about OSRIC? Can you provide evidence of "the reputation of some of the developers and promoters and their internet history of controversy"? I would be most interested in seeing such items, being someone developing items for OSRIC.
 

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