What would a paladin do

[Sigurd]

His deity\church

One element not mentionned in all this is the reception of and possible affront to his church\Deity. If the God has judged him faithful and good is any other judgement an insult?

Is the Paladin important or well known enough to have his church play a roll in his trial. I would have the various church leaders, petition & argue on the paladin's behalf. Perhaps the Paladin will accept church arrest until he can be brought to trial or his church and name cleared.

If everything is truly harmonious in this country, just demonstrating that a (semi)omnicient deity hasn't forsaken him should prove he is a good & lawful paladin. A further judgment that this good & lawful paladin also stands to be punished for breaking societal law is an indictment against the whole church, not just the paladin.

Also what does the god have to say in all this.... If the paladin is of any level he would get some indication. "Stay or go?" "Fight, Flight, or Plight?" would be simple indecators to get from a deity. Following a sign would be a very medievel thing to do and would protect the Paladin's virtue before a possibly unjust law. If he is truly just and the law is evil than he may have to be an exemple in court & possibly in jail\punishment. If the situation is truly unacceptable he may lead the whole religeon into outlawry along with those that have sympathies.

Does the government rule by divine right? What of its validity when it threatens the divine?

 

[dren]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies and ideas.

Just some background for the paladin and my campaign world. He has a set of laws he has to follow to keep his paladinhood, but while they are heavily skewed to follow the laws and tradition of the kingdom, it's not mandatory unless they match his own vows. He will also not lose his paladinhood, as his vows are between him and his god, the recognized god of honour, duty and bravery; a greater LG faith. His associated religion cannot risk breaking their own word or to be seen directly breaking the laws of the land.

Magic is seen as not fully trustworthy, as for every spell that can reveal the truth, there is another one that could hide it. {This is a philsophical idea, they didn't go into the PhB spellbook to count the number of truth spells vs falshood spells.} While spells are used in a court of law, it is only based on the spellcaster's reputation and not the spell itself. Also, defendants must defend themselves in a court, if they have a spell they can use it otherwise they are SOL.

The paladin was tried and convicted in his absence while he was away. While in theory he could go back and argue his innocence, he believes that the forces that conspire agaisnt him would not give him the chance. He's left in a moral quandry. If bounty hunters arrive and any are evil, he won't hesitate to execute the evil once he has given them warning. He hasn't been faced with members of his own faith or his allies' faith coming after him. He will avoid killing the innocent or the faithful at all costs even his own life but will defend himself.

Right now, his most convenient ploy is self-exile in a savage land outside the political reaches of the country. This is what everyone wants him to do (his church, his friends and his family) to avoid the ugly scene of an honoured paladin and son of the city being brought back to the city in chains. Right now, he is on the borderlands, still officially part of the country but in areas where the law is merely a convenience. He is still able to fulfill his vows but he does not know why he was set-up and afraid it may be a past of a bigger plot to hurt his religion or his noble family.

I know the first time the PCs find him, he will help them in battle, with a helmet and visor hiding his identity, while displaying the coat of arms of his faith. They will probably hear rumours of the helpful fellow after the fact, and they may be told of the bounty on his head. What they will do, is quite puzzling to me. They could seek him out to ask questions or even to get the bounty.

Thanks again,
dren
-WWPD-

 

[Digital M@]

Two Words - Black Guard


Let the streets run red with the blood of those who try to arrest me.

 

[Taelorn76]

The paladin would need to clear his name. Be by trial, or find the criminal and bringing him to justice

 

[Sigurd]

The paladin would need to clear his name. Be by trial, or find the criminal and bringing him to justice

Oh he could kill every member of the society that falsly accused him!!!!

 

[Altalazar]

One could try to work within the system, though it may be apparent that the system has already failed if it convicted an innocent paladin of a misdeed. Heck, if the court knows anything about paladins, the mere fact that he still has his paladin's powers indicates he couldn't possibly have done anything not LG, so if the court still convicts in the face of that overwhelming evidence (the Paladin's GOD has personally vouched for him if he still has his powers) then there is likely no justice to be found in the court.

So that paladin would be very justified in evading the authorities and perhaps not even trying to prove his innocent, but instead to prove that the authorities are evil or corrupt (as evidenced by this obvious injustice) and that they must be shown the error of their ways or else they be removed from power.

After all, a paladin has a lot of good he must do in the world, and he can do none of it if he is behind bars.

On the other hand, he could go to jail and try to do good in prison, but odds are he will be far more effective at doing good by his diety outside of the walls of a prison. In fact, I'd say that sort of scenario only makes sense if the paladin truly was guilty, lost his powers, and then must work to redeem himself within the prison.

 

[Coredump]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies and ideas.

Just some background for the paladin and my campaign world...

Thanks again,
dren
-WWPD-

I think you have the right of it. Your story is internally consistent, and should make for a kick ass campaign. Your players should have some fun.

And it is a continuing dilemma. If they help him, they are (in essence) outlaws themselves. Which will, of course, become known at some point.

If they turn him in, they will quickly find, of course, more evidence that he is innocent.

BWAAHAHAHAHA... no matter what they do, it will *seem* wrong, until they finally win the day and become heros themselves.

 

[genshou]

Being a paladin doesn't necessarily mean law-abiding, especially if a law is evil or unjust. A paladin is lawful, but all that means is they follow the law of their church. Divine law takes precedence over any mortal law. Otherwise, all any evil dictator has to do is declare the very existence of a paladin illegal, and all paladins would then instantly lose their powers upon entering the evil dictator's lands. Since they would not, man's judgement and law is obviously not binding upon paladins. Only the laws of their church and god have any relevance.

Now a paladin may decide to respect local law and custom simply to avoid the shedding of otherwise innocent blood and out of a basic sense of decency. But it is not required. If their god says they shall smite evil whereever they find it, then they shall do so, and any local law to the contrary is irrelevant and may be ignored as the paladin thinks best.

Furthermore, alll it takes for a paladin to prove their innocence, or the righteousness of the action they were arrested for, is to swear upon their honor that they are innocent, or acted righteously, and if they lie then may their god take their paladin gifts.

They then proceed to demonstrate that they have in fact retained their gifts. Laying on hands is the easiest demonstration, but summoning a warhorse works as well. A paladin who truly fell from grace would be unable to heal without spellcasting or would be unable to call for a warhorse.

Once the paladin has demonstrated such divine proof of innocence, or righteousness, any further holding of the paladin would rightfully be declared unjust and evil and frees the paladin to then use any force necessary to end such an unjust and evil detainment. In a fantasy world, where gods are real, secular authorities answer to divine authority. Not the other way around.

Quoted for truth, and emailed to my paladin player

 

[genshou]

Now for a more comprehensive reply...

Paladins serve their god. Not a specific sect of their church, in fact sometimes not even the church at all. They do not serve their country, though usually acting in accordance with the greater good and true justice involves the same actions as serving the country. A paladin can quite easily proclaim that they are innocent, and if not may their god take their powers (or even strike them down on the spot), because their abilities are intrinsically tied to their deity. If the court refuses to listen to the voice of reason in this case, it is entirely appropriate for the ire of a god to turn upon them. What kind of influence this has depends on the role the gods play in your campaign. For example, if this is a high-level paladin in the Forgotten Realms, the court would possibly have to face an avatar of Tyr or other appropriate greater deity gating into the middle of the hearing. Usually blasting ensues.

That's my 2cp. Go buy yourself a couple of torches or a whetstone. Ciao!
~tpc

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I currently play a paladin. My PC would seek the counsel of his god (through the graces of a cleric he trusts and Commune.) It may be that his god wants the paladin imprisoned. Perhaps there is another innocent man in prison who will shortly need a champion. Perhaps there is a wizened old cleric who needs to be broken out. For whatever reason, it may be God's Will that he go to prison, and he isn't wise enough to discern God's Will on his own.

So, Commune. Should this paladin allow himself to be imprisoned?