D&D General What Would Happen if Fiends Came to Fill the "Low CR Monsters" Niche?

[Hexmage-EN]

Weren't gnolls originally not fiends? Were they mortals turned into fiends then or mortals brainwashed to work for fiends or actual fiends? Are there still some non-evil ones?

Technically, gnolls first started as a gnome/troll hybrid, but that was temporary and quickly abadoned.

IIRC, gnolls originally were said to have been created by an evil god of hunting named Gorellik, with Yeenoghu (the demon lord now said to be the creator of gnolls) originally having more of a connection to evil giants. At some point it was stated that Yeenoghu killed Gorellik and took over patronage of the gnolls. 4E initially repeated this (again, IIRC, I think Yeenoghu's flail was at one point said to be crafted from Gorellik's spine), but later for whatever reason said that Yeenoghu created the gnolls, but there were some good ones that rejected his influencd (PC rules for playing a gnoll were eventually published, in fact, giving roleplaying advice such as gnolls finding the concept of politeness silly and coming across as blunt and rude even if they aren't trying to be mean).

For whatever reason, 5E decided both to dispense with Gorellik from the beginning and state that gnolls not only were created by Yeenoghu, but were essentially extensions of his demonic hunger clothed in the flesh of ritualistically desecrated hyenas.

 

[Burnside]

I'm playing Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus and I've been happily surprised by the variety of fiends we've faced. Also - and I think this is the adventure itself, not my DM, but not 100% sure - we have faced fiendish stuff where they seem to have literally just taken a beast or monstrosity and changed the creature type to fiend - fiendish giant crab, fiendish giant scorpion, fiendish minotaur, etc. These are particularly good low-CR opponents for players who are not thrilled with killing real-world animals.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

4E, BTW, also had a thing for making non-evil minotaurs relatively prominent in its default setting even before making them a PC race in that edition's Player's Handbook 3. The Nentir Vale region was once the site of an advanced minotaur civilization called Saruun Khel that was devoted to Lawful gods such as Bahamut and Moradin. The adventure Thunderspire Labyrinth is set in the ruins of a section of Saruun Khel, and later in Madness at Gardmore Abbey a tomb of minotaur Bahamut worshipers from the days of Saruun Khel (where Bahamut was depicted as a minotaur) can be found. Baphomet himself was more of a corrupting influence instead of their racial god, trying to influence evil minotaurs to destroy everything their non-evil kin have accomplished.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I'm playing Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus and I've been happily surprised by the variety of fiends we've faced. Also - and I think this is the adventure itself, not my DM, but not 100% sure - we have faced fiendish stuff where they seem to have literally just taken a beast or monstrosity and changed the creature type to fiend - fiendish giant crab, fiendish giant scorpion, fiendish minotaur, etc. These are particularly good low-CR opponents for players who are not thrilled with killing real-world animals.

Oh yeah, I really like that new fiendish hellsboar enemy they introduced in one of the newer patches. It was a surprise to see a fiendish pig appear alongside imps and such in an area of the game I've been through several times already.

I want a miniature of this.

 

[Scribe]

The new Tal'Dorei setting book actually establishes that the origin of gnolls is the same as default 5E, but then has a group of gnolls that, despite being created by an evil ritual to go slaughter a village, decided they didn't want to hurt the villagers and killed their creator instead.

 

[Oofta]

The vast majority of imaginary people in your imaginary world do not appear in the game. And that doesn't matter, the point is to break the link between race and morality. It doesn't matter if your good goblin is Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Adventure, so long as they exist somewhere in the world.

I could. I don't. I don't think it would add anything to my game and there's already too much lore for most of my players to truly absorb. Why do you feel the need to tell me I'm running my game wrong? Why does this always come back to some people proselytizing their one true way? I explained what I do and why. I don't think it's better, I'm certainly not going to ask you why you don't make X always evil.

But thanks for proving my point that no matter what we do someone will let us know we're doing it wrong.

 

[HammerMan]

Technically, gnolls first started as a gnome/troll hybrid, but that was temporary and quickly abadoned.

was this 1e lore, or basic before advanced at all? I have not seen it so I am pretty sure it predates late 80's early 90's I was reading then playing 2e.

 

[Scribe]

Why does this always come back to some people proselytizing their one true way? I explained what I do and why. I don't think it's better, I'm certainly not going to ask you why you don't make X always evil.

But thanks for proving my point that no matter what we do someone will let us know we're doing it wrong.

Bingo.

Between this example, the "I like to stomp Goblins" thread, and any number of other examples over the last few months, its really become obnoxious around here.

 

[Cadence]

was this 1e lore, or basic before advanced at all? I have not seen it so I am pretty sure it predates late 80's early 90's I was reading then playing 2e.

Moldvay Basic, if not earlier. See top image in #40.

 

[jayoungr]

If fiends filled the low CR niche, what would fill the high CR niche?

If the answer is "more fiends," wouldn't that get kind of monotonous?