D&D 5E (2024) What would Olive Ruskettle's class be in 2024?

[billd91]

For all the fuss they went through back in the day to deny her being technically a bard but her calling herself a bard... why not just make her a bard?

 

[Seramus]

For all the fuss they went through back in the day to deny her being technically a bard but her calling herself a bard... why not just make her a bard?

The best part is how intentional the meta joke was. Olive was a wonderful character, but she was literally made to poke fun at the idea that some races couldn't be some classes despite there being no reason for that to be the case. In the end? Halflings can be bards now. Olive won.

 

[James Gasik]

The best part is how intentional the meta joke was. Olive was a wonderful character, but she was literally made to poke fun at the idea that some races couldn't be some classes despite there being no reason for that to be the case. In the end? Halflings can be bards now. Olive won.

Of course, it seems everyone forgot the existence of Demi-Bards in the Complete Bards' Handbook, which would have allowed Olive to be a Herald, Jester, Jongleur, Riddlemaster, or Whistler.

 

[Seramus]

Of course, it seems everyone forgot the existence of Demi-Bards in the Complete Bards' Handbook, which would have allowed Olive to be a Herald, Jester, Jongleur, Riddlemaster, or Whistler.

Olive would have been overjoyed! I always wondered if the Azure Bonds books/module/video game had any influence on their inclusion in the Complete Bard's Handbook. Song of the Saurials (Finder's Trilogy Book 3) art appears very prominently in the first few pages of the CBH, but I never knew if the person putting it there did so as a big fan or just to have a colorful bard-ish piece of art in the book.

 

[James Gasik]

Olive would have been overjoyed! I always wondered if the Azure Bonds books/module/video game had any influence on their inclusion in the Complete Bard's Handbook. Song of the Saurials (Finder's Trilogy Book 3) art appears very prominently in the first few pages of the CBH, but I never knew if the person putting it there did so as a big fan or just to have a colorful bard-ish piece of art in the book.

Honestly, I could never understand why Bards were race-limited in the first place. Ok, maybe you didn't want Halfling or Dwarven Bards because they could cast M-U spells, but by 2e, there wasn't a lot of reason to deny Gnomes (oh no, they might cast Evocation spells!) and definitely no reason to deny Elves.

I'm sure the actual answer was "something something Humans are special", which I know some people liked, but I never really cared for. There was a misprint in one of the PHB's that accidentally allowed for Dwarven Diviner Wizards, and I allowed them for the entirety of my 2e games without any issues whatsoever. I eventually did away with Demihuman class limits and gave Humans a flat +10% to xp earned and allowed anyone to multiclass (inspired by the Lankhmar books) or dual-class (put forward as an option in the Complete Book of Elves) and the game didn't fall apart at the seams because of it. Heck the D&D novels are chock full of characters who simply cannot be members of the class they profess to be (Shield of Innocence from War In Tethyr somehow manages to be an Orog Paladin of Torm, for example), and while it's arguable that them being unique is a part of what makes them memorable, I never saw a reason to deny someone to play against type if it led to fun roleplay.

Of course then I discovered Earthdawn and never ran 2e again until my gaming group agreed to try it out a year or two back...which only lasted for one session because they were so confused by the AD&D-isms, lol.

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On-topic, Olive is a great example of you don't have to have X class written on your character sheet to be something. She was a Thief, unapologetically so, as in the very next book, she went back to Thieving and even took on an apprentice (one of Alias's ill-fated sisters). It just so happened that she was a blessed with a very good singing voice and the ability to work an audience- she didn't need special abilities to be a very good Bard.

One can fight without being a Fighter, or be a priest without being a Cleric. You can steal without being a Thief. Or protect the wilderness and live in tune with nature without being a Druid or Ranger. Being a member of these classes can help, but there are other ways to embody these archetypes.

A Cleric of Chauntea instead of a Druid, a Scout Thief instead of a Ranger. A Fighter/Cleric instead of a Paladin (I can't remember the name, but there was a Kit, maybe two, that gave Dwarven Fighter/Clerics some of the advantages of a Paladin). Even some Priests allowed you to either cast Wizard spells or be a Priest/Mage even if that wasn't normally allowed.

In the Myth Adventures series, someone was holding down the job of Court Wizard without the ability to so much as cast a cantrip, due to owning a large amount of magic items. So while it might be easy to just say "hey this character fights unarmed, they should be a Monk", there are other ways to achieve "being an unarmed warrior".

Maybe it's not as effective, but it can lead to an interesting character- especially if the character themselves believe, in their heart of hearts, that they are, in fact, a Paladin or a Druid, lol.

 

[ECMO3]

Honestly, I could never understand why Bards were race-limited in the first place. Ok, maybe you didn't want Halfling or Dwarven Bards because they could cast M-U spells, but by 2e, there wasn't a lot of reason to deny Gnomes (oh no, they might cast Evocation spells!) and definitely no reason to deny Elves.

They cast Druid spells, not Magic-User Spells.

I'm sure the actual answer was "something something Humans are special", which I know some people liked, but I never really cared for.

Humans and Half-Elves. But ironically you needed to dual class first before you could become a Bard (Fighter-Thief) and Half-Elves technically could not dual class in 1E. This made a wierd system in our games where a Half-Elf PC could "declare" their intent to become a Bard and then they were allowed to dual class from fighter into thief

 

[see]

They cast Druid spells, not Magic-User Spells.

Really depends.

So, the first D&D Bard class was published in The Strategic Review #6 (or Volume 2, Number 1; the issue has both numberings on its cover), February 1976. Page 11. This very first Bard class casts Magic-User spells. Oh, by the way, for this version -- "Elves, Dwarves,
and Hobbits may be Bards but cannot progress beyond the 8th level (Minstrel)". Which is to say, any of the original D&D races could become original D&D bards.

Now, when Gary Gygax put together the AD&D Player's Handbook, published in 1978, he included every single class from both the various D&D Supplements and from The Strategic Review. This involved some minor adjustments for most of the classes, but he radically reworked the Bard into a class that involved progressing first as a fighter, a thief, and then as a "bard", the last casting druid spells, and limited the class to humans and half-elves.

But lots of people preferred the original Bard, which was republished in The Best of The Dragon 1 in 1980 (a collection reprinted, with changed ads, in 1985). So, during the 1980s, there were two in-print versions of the Bard class available from TSR, one in the PHB that cast druid spells, and one in a more obscure publication that cast magic-user spells. While officially people were told not to use that second class with AD&D, only with D&D, plenty of people went ahead did (and after the release of B/X in 1981, it was a much more natural fit for AD&D rules than what D&D had become anyway).

And then, of course, in February 1989 the AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook came along, and its Bard was very clearly based on the one from The Strategic Review, complete with casting what were now Wizard spells, but the class retained Gygax's limitation to humans and half-elves.

So, halfling Olive Ruskettle was first published as a novel character in October 1988, with her first game stats being published in April 1989. Which means that, sure, when she first appeared in print, official AD&D Bards cast druid spells, but by the time she was statted up, official AD&D Bards cast wizard spells.

 

[James Gasik]

They cast Druid spells, not Magic-User Spells.




Humans and Half-Elves. But ironically you needed to dual class first before you could become a Bard (Fighter-Thief) and Half-Elves technically could not dual class in 1E. This made a wierd system in our games where a Half-Elf PC could "declare" their intent to become a Bard and then they were allowed to dual class from fighter into thief

I was thinking of 2e Bards, actually.

But also, Half-Elves can't Dual-Class in 1e, making it actually impossible for them to become Bards. For more information about this, Summon Anti-Bard!