What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[Kaiyanwang]

In case of suicide, I don't think HP apply. You are automatically coup-de-graced by the terrain.

 

[Imaro]

1. Verisimilitude/Reality: You're splitting hairs. Perception is one person's reality and the illusion of reality is perception. I understand your need to make a point, but it's a flawed one from a cognitive basis in my opinion.

No it's not a flawed point...and I've already addressed why I made the distinction... But just to make it more clear...

Reality: Reality, in everyday usage, means "the state of things as they actually exist." Literally, the term denotes what is real; in its widest sense, this includes everything that is, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. ...

Versimilitude: the property of seeming true, of resembling reality; resemblance to reality, realism; a statement which merely appears to be true

There's a pretty big difference between the two... especially when many like to argue minutiae... kind of like this point you brought up.

2. Why does your big bad master level tactician need to be so mature and infallible that a worldly fighter with the reputation of someone who has Come and Get It... can't be so renown as a jerk to the world that the tactician won't come out and take him on one on one?

Because he's a tactician (understands good vs. bad tactics) and not a warrior... the same way an unabashed coward wouldn't rush up to him either... their personality characteristics have suddenly been made meaningless in the context of the narrative to accomodate a mechanic.

Why does your big bad master level tactician need to be so sure of himself and infallible that he doesn't read into the tactical situation incorrectly and engage the taunt?

He could but then give me a choice to make... like with the fighter's mark. Not an auto-fail power that forces him to make the wrong decision.

Why does your fighter when using the taunt always have to be in a superior tactical position? Can you not just change the encounter when the power is too unbalancing? Can the bid bad's minions not change position to support him when he steps out of formation?

So change the narrative to fit the mechanic being invoked... got you. But all that does is support my point more.

There's no reason why any power can't be explained or retcon'd into a story if the DM is flexible enough with the tools he's provided. Sure, there are some times when it really would be an issue and be considered DM munchkinism, but I'm guessing that what we're talking about is the 2% of the time and not the whole?

Huh? You're right, someone, somewhere can explain any power that could possibly be created...given enough time, energy,and inclination... I'd rather just have the mechanics either get out of the way of my narrative or support it... not force me into finding a way to make it fit in the narrative.

Again it's the differnce betweena mechanic like the fighter's mark vs.Come and Get It.

Your thoughts?

KB

All above.

 

[MacMathan]

After seeing yet another one of these threads do people honestly wonder why WotC PR no longer caters to this board? This is no longer really a DnD board in the 4e sense, it is very much a 3.5/pathfinder house by at least 50% or more according to polls.

I also wonder where all of these full price pdf buyers were when they were available and WotC quoted sales as dismal.

WotC should not split their resources and should continue on with 4e. The Encounters program is excellent and while we all have our anecdotes seems to be waiting room only in my area. Pursuing new players is the only way to grow the market and you go after the biggest easiest to reach portion of that. The hint here is it is not the age 35+ gamer with more shelves of gaming material than they could ever use at their disposal.

I play all editions of the game and many others when a fun group is available. I just don't understand the "nerdrage" displayed on what was once a DnD friendly community.

 

[Mournblade94]

Fine. How can a high level barbarian commit ritual suicide by jumping off a cliff, splattering on rocks at the bottom, getting up, climbing back up that cliff and doing it again until he gets it right and dies?

Massive damage rules and you can voluntarily fail the save.

You landed "just right " into something that broke your fall.

Crud! I landed in the marsh again!

You landed on a slope that time that transferred the force and now you are rolling down the hill.

It might be better just to coup de grace yourself and fail the save.

 

[Saint&Sinner]

In my time playing 4e, I think there is a very basic rule that new players can grab onto quite easily. System mastery is very easy to acquire in 4e.

Maybe my comments were not clear. I'm not stupid. I just don't have the time to dig through all the material to run the game.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's like saying... "Well if you ate one rotten egg you might as well eat a dozen... since anyway you look at it, you're eating rotten eggs.

I see it more as ten rotten eggs versus a dozen. Why won't you eat those extra two?! Whatsamatter, you don't like rotten eggs no more? Eat the eggs!!!

 

[Mournblade94]

Maybe my comments were not clear. I'm not stupid. I just don't have the time to dig through all the material to run the game.

Please don't take my comment as if I was insinuating your were stupid in any way. Not the intention at all.

 

[MacMathan]

Fine. How can a high level barbarian commit ritual suicide by jumping off a cliff, splattering on rocks at the bottom, getting up, climbing back up that cliff and doing it again until he gets it right and dies?

All I can say is every edition of DnD has had this same problem. If you want lethal systems there are many others.

If you want to tell a good RP story then tell the DM you are diving to your death and the character is finished. Very few DM's would complain if there was a well thought out, in character reason.

 

[Wicht]

Fine. How can a high level barbarian commit ritual suicide by jumping off a cliff, splattering on rocks at the bottom, getting up, climbing back up that cliff and doing it again until he gets it right and dies?

There is the massive damage rules.

But you're arguing a silly argument. If one person says that 4e's rules breaks their ability to accept the world as presented, then they are right. Who are you to tell them that they are wrong? There are those who don't like how the 4e rules interact with the story and that is all there is to it. Its a matter of taste and it doesn't matter whether it tastes fine to you or not, there are many of us who don't like the 4e flavor.

To use an analogy, I can't abide cantalope or honey dew melon. Its something thats been true since I was about 1 year old. Something in it (and lately sometimes in watermelon) just interacts with my tongue wrong and I can barely make myself swallow it when I try to eat it. All my life I've had people tell me how wonderful cantelope tastes. I even accept I am in the minority and that others really like it (like everyone in my family but me) but it still tastes nauseating to me. And no matter how others try to describe how good it tastes, or argue about how odd it is and how it should taste good to me, (and no matter how frequently I try it) my tongue refuses to accept it and thats all there is to it.

 

[Imaro]

Massive damage rules and you can voluntarily fail the save.

You landed "just right " into something that broke your fall.

Crud! I landed in the marsh again!

You landed on a slope that time that transferred the force and now you are rolling down the hill.

It might be better just to coup de grace yourself and fail the save.

Thanks for answering that for me...

Oh yeah, here's one... the savage gods of your tribe won't let you die a cowards death