What would you like to see dropped from Dungeon?

[ColonelHardisson]

I don't want to keep going over this, but...

Does this mean if we complain to the degree that Wil Save was grilled on your own boards, we can actually get Downer replaced?

I mean - listen to us, or don't. I personally think your instincts for publishing are pretty good. Certainly, Dungeon has gotten a lot of good press around here since you took the reins. But, if complaining about Wil Save can get *it* dumped, what's so special about Downer? Presumably, you liked Wil Save, too....

I think the main, big difference is that it was Wheaton who elected to stop the column. The final straw, as has been mentioned, was the incessant whining, but that was just a final straw, as Wheaton mentions in his blog. The main reasons were a number of personal obligations and problems.

 

[GVDammerung]

I like Downer. When I was a kid, one of my favorite things about Dragon was Wormy. Downer is our attempt to create something similar. It's not perfect, but I really like the art and I really like the approach.

Some day, Dungeon will have an editor-in-chief who doesn't like it as much and it will be just a memory. But that day isn't today, and that day won't be any day while my name is still at the top of the masthead.

I'm taking a hard line on Downer because I like Downer. My job is to publish material that I like, and that I feel brings something to the magazine. I'm aware that a lot of people don't like it, but a lot of people don't seem to like Mt. Zogon, either, and it's one of my favorite parts of the magazine.

Whatever. One day, one of you might be editing these magazines, and the decision will by yours.

Right now, it's mine.

Downer stays.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

You are taking a "hard line" based upon your personal feelings, despite some apparently significant resistence to "Downer." Excuse me but that sounds awfully tinny, particularly as the artist of Downer, Kyle Hunter, also happens to be one of your friends outside of your professional relationship, as I read your blog and his, which coincidentally appear on the same site. You neglect to mention this fact in your litany, above. Loyalty to a friend? A species of nepotism? I don't know. I suppose it is perhaps a perquisite of your position in either event. Pardon me, but I find your high handed speech, above, and lack of candor therein rather unpleasant. I very much appreciate the Greyhawk content in Dungeon/Dragon and I very much root for you to succeed in your editorship, but some days it is very hard to do so.

 

[DonTadow]

I think the main, big difference is that it was Wheaton who elected to stop the column. The final straw, as has been mentioned, was the incessant whining, but that was just a final straw, as Wheaton mentions in his blog. The main reasons were a number of personal obligations and problems.

I would hope that Paizo would have regulated their boards better. The problem is that unlike Enworld they can't. Their boards are made up primarily of paying subscribers and you don't want to alienate paying people. I've seen some comments on there that would have gotten me warned seriously on here. Heck I made a few comments in Will's defense that would have gotten me thrown out on here.

I do think that if the boards would have been better regulated things could have happened differently. I'm not talking Big Brother everyone, but making sure that people follow the rules.

 

[ShadeMoon64]

I'm of the opinion that Downer should go and Order of the Stick should replace it.

AMEN! Order of the Stick is my favorite strip on gaming since the end of "What's New". Rich Burlew has just the right mix of adventure and flat out funny.

 

[Erik Mona]

Does this mean if we complain to the degree that Wil Save was grilled on your own boards, we can actually get Downer replaced?

I mean - listen to us, or don't. I personally think your instincts for publishing are pretty good. Certainly, Dungeon has gotten a lot of good press around here since you took the reins. But, if complaining about Wil Save can get *it* dumped, what's so special about Downer? Presumably, you liked Wil Save, too....

The thing that frustrates me most about this entire situation is that it gives the impression that a vocal minorty can badger us enough to get us to change things in the magazine.

The "Failed Wil Save" thread on the Paizo message boards had more than 500 anti-Wil Save posts. I read the thread, at first, when it was a novelty. I soon grew sick of it, but whatever, people are free to post whatever they want.

It wasn't _my_ decision to kill Wil Save. It was Wil's, informed, in part, by that thread. But let's not forget that Wil just got over a very frustrating bout of Mono during which he realized that he was over committed.

The negative feedback and the business of his life combined into a one-two punch that killed the column. To a certain degree, I was as much a bystander to its death as any of you.

So the "Failed Wil Save" comments didn't do anything for me other than tell me that a vocal minority of people didn't like the column, and enjoyed bashing it on our message boards. I still received lots of letters extolling the column's virtues, and I personally liked it, so I was content to keep publishing it.

The decision to stop the column was Wil's, not mine. If Kyle decides to stop drawing Downer, it will leave the magazine, but he's certainly not going to get any pressure from me to do so, and knowing Kyle he's not going to be swayed by message boards he never reads.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

 

[RuminDange]

I'm of the opinion that Downer should go and Order of the Stick should replace it.

Ditto 3000% precent or at least something like it by Rich. I can't stand downer in the least so I skip it. Letters to the editor could technically be published online for those that want to see them I read them but more of a scan. I'd rather see maps, critical threats or adventure hook ideas to help when then imagination is struggling. The adventures are nice reads but I've never ran one straight up, but they are great for hooks, ideas, map, etc.

I like the changes with Dungeon over time that why I just renewed, but since this is a thread about what we would like to see go, that is my vote. Wil Save was one of the first I read followed by the other comics, and I'm sad to see it go by understand Wil's reasons.


RD

 

[DonTadow]

You are taking a "hard line" based upon your personal feelings, despite some apparently significant resistence to "Downer." Excuse me but that sounds awfully tinny, particularly as the artist of Downer, Kyle Hunter, also happens to be one of your friends outside of your professional relationship, as I read your blog and his, which coincidentally appear on the same site. You neglect to mention this fact in your litany, above. Loyalty to a friend? A species of nepotism? I don't know. I suppose it is perhaps a perquisite of your position in either event. Pardon me, but I find your high handed speech, above, and lack of candor therein rather unpleasant. I very much appreciate the Greyhawk content in Dungeon/Dragon and I very much root for you to succeed in your editorship, but some days it is very hard to do so.

Hey editor's perogative. It's not a great answer to this, but this is how it is. I've hired friends, heck I've been guilty on keeping hacks on board because I had been friends with them. I know people who do it everyday. There's a lot of politics when you're the boss. If their work doesnt bring down my product too much, and so long as I don't have to do a hefty editing job, I've kept them around.

 

[francisca]

Hey Erik-

I see lotsa "down with downer, replace with OOTS". How about keeping downer and replacing Wil Save with OOTS? I'd like to see Burlew get some print in either Dungeon or Dragon, and you have a page to fill......

 

[Erik Mona]

You are taking a "hard line" based upon your personal feelings, despite some apparently significant resistence to "Downer." Excuse me but that sounds awfully tinny, particularly as the artist of Downer, Kyle Hunter, also happens to be one of your friends outside of your professional relationship, as I read your blog and his, which coincidentally appear on the same site. You neglect to mention this fact in your litany, above. Loyalty to a friend? A species of nepotism? I don't know. I suppose it is perhaps a perquisite of your position in either event. Pardon me, but I find your high handed speech, above, and lack of candor therein rather unpleasant. I very much appreciate the Greyhawk content in Dungeon/Dragon and I very much root for you to succeed in your editorship, but some days it is very hard to do so.

Kyle is a personal friend. I assume that much is obvious, as all of the "clues" are right in the open and given the fact that I have mentioned such several times, in several forums. In fact, Kyle Hunter used to be the art director of Dungeon, something that is very much public information.

I appreciate the microscopic scrutiny, GVD. Helps to keep me on my toes.

--Erik Mona

 

[ShadeMoon64]

Hey Erik-

I see lotsa "down with downer, replace with OOTS". How about keeping downer and replacing Wil Save with OOTS? I'd like to see Burlew get some print in either Dungeon or Dragon, and you have a page to fill......

I would back this 100% While I don't care for Downer, I enjoy the rest of the magazine.
I think taking a simple question like' "Which would you like to see dropped?" and turning it into a referendum on Erik's editorial choices is a bit extreme.