What would you price this item at?

[Bagpuss]

I want a ring/wonderous item/weapon that allows a Rogue to use the Grave Strike 1st level Cleric spell. Either continous or X many uses a day.

Grave Strike is Range Personal, duration 1 round, Swift Action to cast. Allows a sneak attack damage verse undead. From the Complete Adventurer.

So far I've come up with (looking at the guidelines)...

Use activated (putting on the ring)
Spell level x Caster level x 2000 = 2000 Then 2000 x 4 = 8000gp (for duration in rounds to continuous).

Or probably a +1 weapon item modifier?

Command word activated - twice a day (5/2 = 2.5).
Or 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800gp / 2.5 = 720gp seems too cheap (then again it is only 2 rounds it works for).

The problem with Pricing is Sneak Attack depends on level so what might seem expensive at one point is cheap later on so what I was considering was...

To have a Grave Strike, lesser as +1 weapon bonus (allowing up to 3d6 of sneak attack damage) a normal at +2 (allowing up to 6d6) and a Greater at +3 (allowing unlimited).

The lesser I got by comparing it with Undead Bane which isn't situational like Sneak Attack.

Much like you have lesser and greater rods for metamagic.

 

[KarinsDad]

The problem with this continuous item is similar to that of a continuous item of True Strike. +20 to hit is ridiculous, but it is not ridiculous once per spell cast.

Hitting undead with sneak attack damage is ridiculous, but it is not ridiculous for one round per spell cast.

When you try to convert some one round total duration spells into items, it becomes problematic because the designers gave some mega-effect, but only for a single round per spell. Allowing the mega-effect to work all of the time is very potent.


The fact is, being immune to sneak attack damage is a major defense of undead. To shunt that aside with a magic item should require a major expenditure in wealth. Along the idea of 25,000 GP to 100,000 GP of wealth, not 8000 GP.

I like your idea of "lesser" items, but note that many of the Metamagic Rods are grossly underpriced anyway.

Or put another way, a Holy Sword does +2D6 damage for +2 on the weapon, but only against evil opponents. Grave Strike Sneak Attack would do +1D6 per level of sneak attack, but only against undead opponents. So, each level of sneak attack damage should be equivalent to a +1 bonus on a weapon.

So, this would be:

max +1D6 = 6000 GP (+2 weapon bonus - +1 weapon bonus)
+2D6 = 10000 GP
+3D6 = 14000 GP
+4D6 = 18000 GP
+5D6 = 22000 GP
+6D6 = 26000 GP
+7D6 = 30000 GP
+8D6 = 34000 GP
+9D6 = 38000 GP
+10D6 = 42000 GP

I would then double the price here due to the fact that this damage would stack with any magical weapon. This really can be huge damage compared to what other PCs can do with a weapon. And, I would not reduce the price at all due to other sneak attack limitations since it is so easy to get around those (e.g. it's easy to gain invisibility or flanking or other advantages so that sneak attack damage occurs on a lot of rounds).

So, a Ring of 5D6 Max Continuous Grave Strike Sneak Attack should cost 44,000 GP. And, this item would only work for a character who already has sneak attack. If a PC has +3D6 sneak attack, this ring would allow him to use +3D6, not more (to a max of +5D6 when his sneak attack bonus gets that high).


Edit: Opps. Screwed up the math. I did the delta between +3 and +2, +4 and +3, etc. instead of +3 and +1, +4 and +1, etc.

max +1D6 = 6000 GP (+2 weapon bonus - +1 weapon bonus)
+2D6 = 16000 GP (+3 weapon bonus - +1 weapon bonus)
+3D6 = 30000 GP
+4D6 = 48000 GP
+5D6 = 70000 GP
+6D6 = 96000 GP
+7D6 = 126000 GP
+8D6 = 160000 GP
+9D6 = 198000 GP
+10D6 = 240000 GP

In this case, there would be no need to double the cost since the cost would be so high once you got to a +2D6 item anyway.

 

[Vorput]

Yeah, there was a thread on this exact question a while back... and I think the general consensus was just not to allow the item, or make it ridicuosly priced.

If you're going to allow the item, I think KarinsDad's pricing is a good guideline... but I don't think I'd allow it. It's such an item that every rogue with the money would pick up, and gets rid of one of the larger strengths of undead.

Wizards had some good articles on this, here's the one on true strike that was mentioned.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a

Vorp

 

[calypso15]

A few thoughts... I think your best approach was the 3 versions of +1,+2, and +3. Also, keep in mind that command-word activation is a standard action, thereby kinda defeating the purpose of having an item that grants Grave Strike.

Calypso

 

[Paraxis]

I don't think that the power to sneak attack undead or constructs for that matter is game breaking powerful.

Your idea of the weapon bonuses is a good one in my opinion but it should be more broad, maybe for every +1 you get 2d6 but make it include other creatures as well.

IE
+1 = 2d6 of your precision based damage can hurt things that are immune to it.
+2= 4d6 of your precision based damage can hurt things that are immune to it.
+3 = 6d6
+4 = 8d6
+5 = 10d6

Yes almost every rogue will want it but, with things like heavy fortification out there and the large amounts of undead and constucts in most modules sounds fine to me.

Right now there are alot of magic items everyone will want, doesn't mean they are broken just very usefull.

If you want to describe the process it just lets you hit at the magic holding the creature together the weapon can tear at the magic fabric running through the creature so if you know how to strike vital spots on normal creatures it just gives you the ability to hurt the vital spots of constructs and undead (those being the magical essence inside of them).

One more thing with levels in use magic device and a wand, or one level of cleric and a ring of spell storing/ or wand a character could accomplish the same thing so saying it is far to unballancing to allow it at a reasonable price is just silly. I would rather one of my players come to me with a request like yours then start picking up a level of cleric just so they can do it.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't think that the power to sneak attack undead or constructs for that matter is game breaking powerful.

Your idea of the weapon bonuses is a good one in my opinion but it should be more broad, maybe for every +1 you get 2d6 but make it include other creatures as well.

IE
+1 = 2d6 of your precision based damage can hurt things that are immune to it.
+2= 4d6 of your precision based damage can hurt things that are immune to it.
+3 = 6d6
+4 = 8d6
+5 = 10d6

This does not match the rest of the game balance though. For example, Flaming weapons of +1D6 for +1, or Holy weapons at +2D6 for +2. Granted, the character has to have the Sneak Attack damage himself as opposed to the item giving it to him (and Undead Bane weapons are more potent then +1D6), but the higher powered versions of this really screws with the balance concept of undead.

Undead are supposed to be iconic scary creatures that make players think ahead of time and be cautious. Not just another monster to be vanquished with the obvious tactic du jour. Whenever a game element is added to make defeating undead easier, it has to be carefully considered. IMO.

 

[Bagpuss]

The reason I'm more than happy to allow at least +2d6 sneak attack against undead for a +1 enhancement, is if you compare it with Undead Bane, also +1.

Undead Bane gives an additional +2 to hit and 2d6+2 additional damage, and isn't situational like sneak attack.

Hence I think KarinsDad's pricing is too high.

Grave Strike the spell also effects all attacks to a two weapon character could use it on both weapons at the same time. As an weapon enhancement it is only going to effect one weapon admittedly all the time. It also doesn't allow critical hits, only sneak attack so it's not completely game breaking. But I agree at higher levels it is dangerously upsetting one of undead's key defenses.

So I might just restrict it to the lesser version (max of +3d6) and even then consider it a free action to activate and limited charges per day (perhaps 3), so you arn't likely to use it on the hoards of zombies, just hold out for the vampire.

 

[Vorput]

So I might just restrict it to the lesser version (max of +3d6) and even then consider it a free action to activate and limited charges per day (perhaps 3), so you arn't likely to use it on the hoards of zombies, just hold out for the vampire.

If I were to allow it, that seems a good guideline...

Vorp

 

[Shadeus]

It's cheaper to spend the 25 gp on a scroll of it and UMD. IIRC, it's a DC 21 check assuming you have a Wisdom of 11. Maxed out ranks and say a 14 Cha gets you a 50/50 shot by level 6. Things like a circlet of persuasion can make that an even easier check. It's a far cry from the guarentee of a continuous magic item, but it gets around the unpriceable continuous use 1st-level spell.

Without the 11 Wis, just forget it; it's far too difficult to try to mimic an ability score.

And a wand work work either; it has a casting time of a standard action (I believe this was clarified in Complete Arcana) making it an unusuable combo. (I recall a thread titled "The wand of Wraithstrike market crashes". )

Oh, there is a +2 special weapon enhancement in Libris Mortis that is a step above ghost touch allowing for sneak attacks against incorporeal foes.

 

[Kilmore]

Most important question: How much money does the customer have?

At any rate, any unique item this powerful, unless it is made on demand in the course of the game, is bound to be tied up with some sort of history which will probably affect it's cost for better or worse somehow.