D&D 5E () What would you want for 5e Birthright?

[Laurefindel]

This is whhy I disagree with @Laurefindel 's proposal to keep it as European as possible. I think a lot of newer players (who are now the majority) would find that rather limiting. If it's a Dungeons and Dragons (tm) setting, there should be ways to play all official races. Including rabbit-people.

I often say that a setting is define just as much by what it doesn't have as what it does have. I know that for many, the subdued fantasy themes of Birthright was what make this setting attractive; the last thing I'd want out of it is another "everything goes!" setting. I know that for some it's "another humans, elves, dwarves and halfling setting? yawn". For me it's "another cantina bar setting? yawn". I like a tighter focus. This focus doesn't have to be on human/elf/dwarf/halfling, but this is what was established in this setting and diverting from it would lose much of it's attraction in my case.

That being said, a subdued medieval europe theme and high fantasy races aren't completely incompatible in Birthright. "Monsters" in Cerilia are very anthropomorphic in behaviour and often in appearance. Awnsheghlien are a thing, and a rabbitfolk makes a good one. Perhaps your character is not a rabbit-person, he/she is THE rabbit-person! Or perhaps somewhere there is an obscure domain ruled by a king/queen rabbit and its rabbit people. In one way or another, a player could easily make a rabbitfolk character fit in Birthright, only, there won't be many more abroad and the rabbit character will be seen as a curiosity, possibly one that would be persecuted if it weren't under that protection of the local monarch.

I once thought that Birthright's map could even be modular, not unlike some board game where the world/galaxy is generated before each game, allowing the DM to include/exclude/juxtapose/add new domains to fit their Birthright game. I'm no longer sure that's a good idea, but it would allow playgroups to have more control over what they expect out of Birthright.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I often say that a setting is define just as much by what it doesn't have as what it does have. I know that for many, the subdued fantasy themes of Birthright was what make this setting attractive; the last thing I'd want out of it is another "everything goes!" setting. I know that for some it's "another humans, elves, dwarves and halfling setting? yawn". For me it's "another cantina bar setting? yawn". I like a tighter focus. This focus doesn't have to be on human/elf/dwarf/halfling, but this is what was established in this setting and diverting from it would lose much of it's attraction in my case.

That being said, a subdued medieval europe theme and high fantasy races aren't completely incompatible in Birthright. "Monsters" in Cerilia are very anthropomorphic in behaviour and often in appearance. Awnsheghlien are a thing, and a rabbitfolk makes a good one. Perhaps your character is not a rabbit-person, he/she is THE rabbit-person! Or perhaps somewhere there is an obscure domain ruled by a king/queen rabbit and its rabbit people. In one way or another, a player could easily make a rabbitolk character fit in Birthright, only, there won't be many more abroad and the rabbit character will be seen as a curiosity, possibly one that would be persecuted if it weren't under that protection of the local monarch.

I once thought that Birthright's map could even be modular, not unlike some board game where the world/galaxy is generated before each game, allowing the DM to include/exclude/juxtapose/add new domains to fit their Birthright game. I'm not longer sure that's a good idea, but I would allow playgroups to have more control over what they expect out of Birthright.

Yeah classic vs. cliché is a recurring argument, even if it's rarely in the open. Of course, I think a lot of people would agree that a new but thematically consistent set of races is best.

I think settings should only be clearly defined in terms of core aspects and loose beyond that. Birthright isn't about being classic in it's race selection, it's about having Domains and the side-effects of that. As you noted, that leaves a lot of wiggle room for what sorts of things might exist.

On the other hand, if people just steal the Domain rules and add them to homebrew campaigns, that's still a good thing.

 

[Mind of tempest]

a new class that fits it.
less of the old standard races maybe pick three and human then use some of the less integrated races
a domain system
proper integration of all the player classes.

 

[NotAYakk]

I'd extend levels.

Provinces and Regencies have levels.

The Level of your Provinces (and its kind) give it abilities; muster troops, whatever. But only if you can control it.

The Level of your Regency is how much control you have over it. The Regency level gives benefits both the ruler (ie, Bloodline powers) and to your ability to interact with the Provinces.

A high level set of Provinces without a high level Regency is uncontrolled by the ruler. A Regency that outsizes its Provinces has little to work with.

We then steal Regency point kinds to make Regency classes, like:
Law
Temple
Source
Guild

On the Provinces side, we can come up with a pile of Province classes.

Your Dominion is the parts of the Provinces you can exploit using your Regency level. It is build-a-bear.

Multiple PCs ruling the same country (set of provinces) can plunder a different set of Domain levels to build each of their Dominions within that country.

When you run short of Domain levels in your country, you'll want to take control over another province.

Imagine the PCs start out ruling Homeland.

It has Domain levels: (total 14).
Towns L 2
Wilds L 3
Leylines L 3
Farms L 5
Naval L 1

The PCs each start out with Regency L 1, except for the ruler who is Regency L 2.

Adventures and actions that increase their control over their country boost their Regency level.

After a while, the PCs are level 5, and everyone is Regency L 3. There are 5 of them; there aren't enough Domain levels for them to all rule.

They can expend efforts "leveling up" their provinces, seek to expand them, etc.

 

[TheSword]

I’ll be totally honest, I think the domain rules and regency rules are pretty much pret-a-manger. Do they really need to be changed or is this change for change’s sake.

Pretty much the entire rule set was independent of ad&d and therefore it can be transposed to 5e without any hassle.

At most id make bloodline a free feat at first level. To allow non-blooded characters to be a thing. Another option would be to have being blooded a race variant of human/half elf like in Eberron, with a feat for major bloodlines.

 

[Tonguez]

This is why I disagree with @Laurefindel 's proposal to keep it as European as possible. I think a lot of newer players (who are now the majority) would find that rather limiting. If it's a Dungeons and Dragons (tm) setting, there should be ways to play all official races. Including rabbit-people.

DnD lacks a pure Medieval setting (like Pendragon or Harn) and I think Cerilla should actually push that angle and be distinctly Human-centric with other races being rare and 'magical'. I think that the distinctiveness can be highlighted by leaning more into the Medieval Germanic feel of the Brecht Hansa League, French Annuire, the Slavic Vos, Viking Rujurik and Moorish Khinasi. I also think it could be made more appealing by emphasizing the Fairytale and Folkloric aspects - after all Rumpelstiltskin, the Big Bad Wolf and The Beast (of Beauty and the Beast) all make for great Awnshegh.

Birthrights approach of shadow-walking Halflings, stone Dwarfs and Fae elfs as autochthonous survivors resentful/mistrusting of humans reminds me of The Witcher, which is another tie-in that could help promote sales.

I also think that an approach that makes Domains and Realms more modular would also be much more helpful as it would allow players to shape the world as they play rather than just buying in to the existing map

 

[deganawida]

DnD lacks a pure Medieval setting (like Pendragon or Harn) and I think Cerilla should actually push that angle and be distinctly Human-centric with other races being rare and 'magical'. I think that the distinctiveness can be highlighted by leaning more into the Medieval Germanic feel of the Brecht Hansa League, French Annuire, the Slavic Vos, Viking Rujurik and Moorish Khinasi. I also think it could be made more appealing by emphasizing the Fairytale and Folkloric aspects - after all Rumpelstiltskin, the Big Bad Wolf and The Beast (of Beauty and the Beast) all make for great Awnshegh.

Birthrights approach of shadow-walking Halflings, stone Dwarfs and Fae elfs as autochthonous survivors resentful/mistrusting of humans reminds me of The Witcher, which is another tie-in that could help promote sales.

I also think that an approach that makes Domains and Realms more modular would also be much more helpful as it would allow players to shape the world as they play rather than just buying in to the existing map

As someone who has been drooling over what I've seen from Dolmenwood, playing up the fairy tale and folklore aspect would be awesome.

 

[Tonguez]

As someone who has been drooling over what I've seen from Dolmenwood, playing up the fairy tale and folklore aspect would be awesome.

Oh, I’d not heard of that setting before but it sure is a good find - I do love the Factions and Powers they’ve included, and the Grimalkin too

 

[deganawida]

Oh, I’d not heard of that setting before but it sure is a good find - I do love the Factions and Powers they’ve included, and the Grimalkin too

I can't take credit for that discovery; I found it in the OSE thread in the Older Editions subforum. I really like things that are based on fairy tales and folklore, as they have deeper cultural resonance with me.

 

[CapnZapp]

I’ll be totally honest, I think the domain rules and regency rules are pretty much pret-a-manger. Do they really need to be changed or is this change for change’s sake.

Pretty much the entire rule set was independent of ad&d and therefore it can be transposed to 5e without any hassle.

The problem is if those old rules just doesn't work.

Without heavy DM intervention, I mean.

What I want is for a domain layer as balanced as if it was a stand-alone board game. No handwavium should be needed. Because it basically IS a stand-alone board game.

If the heroes are given a big strong nation to begin with, getting the economy up and running should be relatively easy. If they get a small poor nation, it should be very hard.

It should not be that regardless of the actual state of your nation, the same set of heroics and adventures lead to the same success end state. In that case, the various domain statistics is just a smoke screen, and the game should simply say that outright, and drop the pretense, and not give numeric data.

Either the numbers mean something or they don't.