D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?

[Zjelani]

Where are the rules for this? I've been considering something along these same lines.

Huh, I can't seem to find it now on the Bastion site. Anyway, I think something similiar came out in one of advanced books or somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Either way, to keep the thread hijack to a minimum, it's pretty simple:

* You don't have to aply metamagic effects ahead of time. (I suppose you still could if you want to).

* Instead, with the first metamagic feat you select, you get 2 uses per day (I suppose 3 wouldn't hurt, or you could make it scale with level even 1 to 5 = 1 use, 6 to 10 = 2 uses, etc. Having it modified by ability bonus sounded good at first, but could be easily overpowering, I think).

* Each time you select a new metamagic feat, you get 1 additional metamagic use per day. These can be applied to any of your metamagic feats, so you could spread them out, or use 1 metamagic feat several times. (In our Eberron campaign, I also let them burn an action point to gain another use that day.)

* You can still only use the metamagic feat on spells lower than your max. For example, if you wanted to Empower a spell (+2 spell level adjustment) and can only cast up to 5th level spells, then you can only Empower spells of 3rd level or lower (max spell level minus adjustment). The spell still uses up the normal slot. You just can't apply it to your highest level spells.

I'm pretty sure that's it in a nutshell. Our group NEVER used metamagic before, and only took the feats for prestige class requirements. Not saying the existing mechanic is bad, it just never caught on with our group for whatever reason. This new variant is actually getting used by them now and doesn't seem abusive so far.

So, anyway, hijack over. If anyone wants to discuss it further or has questions, start up a new thread.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

thanks to both of you!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Zjelani!

* Metamagic on-the-fly (I've seen several similiar systems, but the one I originally saw and use is Jim Butler's where you get 2 free uses plus 1 for every additional metamagic feat.)

Solved:

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff9.htm

Technically epic, but the idea certainly works at sub-epic levels.

* CR modifiers/explanations - Dragons allegedly have an artificially low CR because "it's assumed PCs won't stumble upon them randomly, but will be prepared" (I think Sean Reynolds said that, but don't quote me... or him, as the case may be). But I like the idea of having the CRs broken down somehow, or at least having some standard information on how to adjust them. Like "if your party doesn't include a cleric who can turn, all undead are +1 CR." or how much to adjust the CR based on whether the PCs have weapons that can overcome the DR. Yeah, it's all guidelines and suggestions, but some guidance on how to adjust them would be nice. Again, you don't need a new edition in order to do this.!!

Solved:

http://www.badaxegames.com/

Grim Tales, chapters 13 and 14 are what you are looking for.

 

[Mercule]

Removing the various x/day mechanics from the game.

 

[WayneLigon]

Some idealized combo of Blue Rose, d20 Modern, Arcana Unearthed and Iron Heroes
Whatever is done, D&D needs to be one book, priced for easy entry. $20 in current value at the absolute top. $15.00 would be better.

Core Classes: Fighter, Mage, Rogue. A simple system of choosing skill sets, Saves and additional abilities that allows one to create Paladins, Rangers, Clerics, and Druids.

A basic combat section and an advanced combat section. No adventure or later system should assume you are using the advanced system.

A basic selection of spells, which are broken into Simple, Complex and 'spend a feat or class ability use to do this' level. 15-20 spells at a lower level, maybe no more than five or six at the highest levels. I don't want a Champions-like system but having a simple implementation of energy types and spell type (ray, cone, touch, ranged, whatrever) should be able to wipe out most repetative-type spells. No need for a Magic Missle and Melph's Acid Arrow and Fireball... consolidate and simplify until it hurts, then do it some more.

All skills are class skills.

GM advice. Handling player advice. Ajudicating beyond the rules advice.

A handfull of misc magic items. 20-30 should be more than enough. Toss out most of the weird stuff that you see maybe once in a blue moon. Simplified rules for potions and scrolls, xp and pricing thereof; as in, like, three or four sentences. Or just stick it inthe spell description.

A sample spell:

Cure Wounds (scales)
Level: 1
Effect: You cure 1d6 points of wounds per caster level.
Special: You can spend additional uses per day to cure other things. Minor condition (dazed, nauseous): +1. Major condition (unconscious): +2. Disease: +3. Ability Damage: +1 per ability point. Death: +10. 1d8 per level: +2. 1d10 per level: +4
Potion: 50gp +5xp per use expended. Wand: 500gp + 150xp/charge

There, we just got rid of like seven or eight spells in seven lines plus put in magic item creation info. THat's what I'm talking about. Concise. Based on a scalable system. Plays well with the magic item creation system a few pages further on.

30-50 monsters, the classic bread and butter monsters. Dragons: two or three kinds. Giants: 1-2 kinds. Humanoids: 5-6. Two or three extraplanar things at most. All the weird specialized stuff can be saved for adventures and future supplements.

 

[Emirikol]

1. ELIMINATION of the distinction between divine, arcane, bard, paladin, assassin, psionic magic. Magic is magic is magic is magic. Why have 3+ systems for such a simple concept?

2. I'd like to see the variety of spells reduced with more options PER SPELL as you increase in level in one spell description.
* For example, FIREBALLS. Fireball, delayed blast fireball... ACID MISSILES: acid arrow, acid splash. CHARM PERSON: charm person, charm monster; CURE: Cure light wounds...ad repeatum.

3. Keep the current spell system and make "SPELL POINT" an optional system that goes in the book that contains all the useless high-level spells that nobody ever uses.

4. INCREASE the number of core classes to about 30 -> by making prestige classes optional FROM LEVEL 1 instead of the stupid rube goldberg system it currently is.

5. Get rid of the 3-18 system and go with simple plusses and minuses. The number and the bonus just adds a layer of obsolete nonsense.

6. Reduce the number of skills and make the 'thief' skills feats instead (e.g. 'pick pockets'). make skills a LOT SIMPLER. Right now it's a math-y waste of time system for something that rarely gets used by characters past 5th level.

7. Go to a d4 system (not that stupid d6 system) instead of d20 (just kidding all-around)

8. Find out what the 'dogma' of D&D is that is holding it back from being a better system and banish all of it's followers so we can move on.

9. REQUIRE that anything that appears in Dragon to be 'official' material.

10. Either have decent NPC classes or just have one NPC class. Anything else is stupid redundancy.

11. Use the word 'stupid' a lot to describe things. I like that word, 'stupid.'

12. More artwork that people will remember for a lifetime

13. Put out a computer character generation system that actually WORKS. Maybe, huh, that if you can't even get a computer to work your system, there's something a little too complex about the system eh?

14. A brief and intendely not-humorus rant on points follows: Go with a completely point based system [not] so that people who are hung up on point systems can completely detail their characters over a 45 day period with points from everything about how many points it takes to take a lshat each morning to how many points you need to make your long-point-sword long enough to have more points than a short-point-sword and that the points are spent in the right point categories so that it isn't a point-mace because you spent the wrong points. And add a point system for spells thats so munchkinized that first level characters can cast disintegrate and regenerate thier points(based on a point-based regeneration point system that is pointedly pointed). I LOVE POINT SYSTEMS SOOO MUCH! Point me in the right direction! Make sure that I don't even have to roll dice. Just give me a handful of points I can throw on the table so that I can make my point to my friends about how points are my life and I just want points poured all over me like in that movie American Beauty. I want points thrown at my wedding and I named my dog points and I purchased him based on the frequent flyer points I had left after checking the points on my credit card. POINTS! Can you tell I love points? Huh, huh [frothing at the mouth]. OK RANT OFF. BTW, no offense to you guys who like point systems. They have their usage in the equipment purchasing section and I don't mind a spell-point or ability-buy system..although I prefer quicker ways.

15. Make psionics core, because now that it's part of ONE MAGIC SYSTEM, it's just a different way of utilizing it. DM's won't have to be any more confused about that than they do about 'bard singing magic.'

16. Team up with GW or WW to make a world with some depth.

17. Maybe change the OGL license so that companies aren't allowed to saturate the market with utter crap.

jh



..

 

[Emirikol]

Eliminate the palidin!

It's in the title:

Eliminate the paladin (he's redundant to an LG cleric anyways).

Add the "priest"
Add the "Combat medic" Forget the 'healer.' Who the hell wants to play 'the healer.' Combat medic sounds a hell of a lot better.

jh

 

[Kapture]

So... wow. Everybody wants 4.0 to be their homebrew.

 

[Kapture]

1. ELIMINATION of the distinction between divine, arcane, bard, paladin, assassin, psionic magic. Magic is magic is magic is magic. Why have 3+ systems for such a simple concept?

Yeah! Magic is simple! You just do stuff! With your... frangiwotziz. To the... thing.

You know, man.

The... thing.

 

[Ghostwind]

Where are the rules for this? I've been considering something along these same lines.

If you sign up as a Bastion Press playtester, you will find Jim's Metamagic article in the Files section.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bp-playtest/