D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?

[Mercule]

Another thing I'd like to see changed:

Make Clerics more tuned to be priests of their specific god. The domains are a joke, in this regard. I'm not saying that we should go back to 2E spheres, as that's a bit convoluted for a lot of people (not me, but I don't want to scare my players).

Also, don't have turn/rebuke undead as the default "channelling" ability. Allow clerics to pick one from a list (list to be pulled from the options that some feats give in 3.5). And stop relating it to positive/negative energy -- you're channeling raw power of your god.

 

[fuindordm]

Gee whiz, some really long lists here. A lot of the changes suggested make the game extremely different.

My own list:

Skill groups instead of class/cross class skills. (Idea stolen from Iron Heroes, but with groups generally
containing only 2 skills.) All skills cost one point per rank, but certain classes get access to Athletics (climb/jump), Awareness (spot/listen), Stealth (Hide/MS), Scribe (Decipher/Forgery), Influence (Diplomacy/Intimidate), Arcana (one Knowledge/Spellcraft) and so on.

More flexibility in choosing class abilities, like what they did with high-level rogue abliities and the ranger fighting styles in 3.5. Most of the variant classes in Unearthed Arcana should be incorporated into the core description. This ought to cut down drastically on the number of prestige classes needed, too.

Move to a spell point system and rebalance the wizard/sorcerer (or just unify them into a single class), but modify the scale somewhat so that first-level spells (even ones that don't cause damage) still use a significant fraction of a high-level caster's total. Making all spells default to the minimum caster level and giving them +1 DC and +2 caster levels per extra 2 SP spent (kind of like many psionic powers) would probably be enough.

Make arcane spell failure apply to all spells and all classes equally, or take it out of the game.

Ben

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Okay, it's a given that 4th edition will be produced. Although the exact year is up for speculation depending on who you talk to, the fact remains that it will be coming out. Having said that, if you could directly influence what went into 4e what rules you want to see 4e included?

I would like to see:
* Class bonus to defense
* Armor feats must be paid for.
* Spell point casting system
* More flexible classes
* Only give magic to classes that warrant it. For instance, this means no supernatural, spell or spell-like abilities to a war-commander class or to the ranger class. Not unless said ranger takes the Bloodline of Kings feat, anyway.
* Fighter feats that exceed BAB +14 and go all the way up to BAB +20. Some feats that look like Iron Heroes class abilities would be nice, too
* Reducing the assumptions of wealth and magic items. They should be a lot lower. Beef up saving throws to more than compensate for the lack of a cloak of resistance.
* Removing half-races from the Player's Handbook.
* Use Dragonshard-flavored gnomes, as the generic PH gnome doesn't add anything to the game except mages that don't die.
* More cool combat options, like picking people up and throwing them, clotheslining opponents, etc.
* Unarmed combat feats that aren't wimpy (the way Improved Unarmed Strike is)
* Combat Expertise having a BAB requirement rather than an Int requirement.
* More cool skill options. (I like how Blue Rose has rules for Gather Information to plant rumors, not just find them.)
* Rules for Diplomacy that actually make sense.
* Get rid of "all-or-nothing" defensive spells like greater invisibility. Add "broad defensive" spells like spell mantle from Neverwinter Nights. Give the mage more hp.
* Cleat and concise instructions on how to create balanced game mechanics like feats, magic items, prestige classes, etc.
* Monsters that don't have lame AC scores. A better way of advancing monsters.
* Reducing the number of skill points you get at 1st-level. IMO, you should just get the one rank max per level, every level. This would make stats a bit more important to skills (especially Charisma) and wouldn't force you to take a certain class at first level just to get those four ranks in Tumble, etc.
* Clean up the weapon size system, and the rules for natural attacks.

 

[Zimbel]

Major changes I'd like

Let's start with the changes I'd advise against:
1) Removing HP (or its equivalent).
2) Removing Levels.

Now, for what I'd like:
1) Re-vamp the magic system. I think that this should be a primary target for 4e; even 3.5 has only mild tweaks from 1st ed AD&D. Whether it be point based (or not), feat based (or not) dosen't matter to me; I just don't want major spellcasters to be very weak at low levels and dominate the game at high levels. Simuarly, a 1st level spell with no restrictions on its casting shouldn't be able to replace 20+ skill points on a skill. These are problems that aren't solved in AE (in my opinion), although it starts to address them.

2) Change Armor. Specifically, there should be multiple effective armor choices for mid-high level characters. AE and IL have decent approaches to this issue.

3) Re-balance the classes (or the equivalent of classes). Specifically, having base HP of one class being 260% larger than another is a bad thing. There are many other issues.

4) Design for the full extent of each class. For example, if 18 levels are described, make certain that 18 levels are supported.

5) Design the creatures around the characters. For example, death effects should be rare until roughly when raise dead (or its equivalent) is realistic to cast or obtain.

6) Remove attribute scores. Modifers are sufficient for play, and we shouldn't be bound to how Gary Gygax originally had scores rolled in (O)D&D.

7) Expand skills. Specifically, expand their usefulness, and make them not as easy to ignore with the use of spells/magic. IL has some pretty good ideas (as does 3.5, and The Complete Adventurer).

AE= Arcana Evolved IL = Iron Lore, both by Malhovic press. Other mentioned sources are from WOTC or one of its predecessors.

 

[howandwhy99]

Releasing OGL's for all the previous D&D editions.

Perhaps this might convince all other D&D players to support Wizards?

(I'm not saying support the product. But remove the impediment from an already split community.)

 

[JoeGKushner]

Another thing I'd like to see changed:

Make Clerics more tuned to be priests of their specific god. The domains are a joke, in this regard. I'm not saying that we should go back to 2E spheres, as that's a bit convoluted for a lot of people (not me, but I don't want to scare my players).

Also, don't have turn/rebuke undead as the default "channelling" ability. Allow clerics to pick one from a list (list to be pulled from the options that some feats give in 3.5). And stop relating it to positive/negative energy -- you're channeling raw power of your god.

http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=review&reviewid=2517393

Priests of the Celestial Spheres. There you go amigo. You're set. Tell 'em Joe Kushner sent ya.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Hire Monte Cook back...

 

[Zimbel]

Malhovic

Hire Monte Cook back...

Is it just me, or does much of this thread read a bit like an ad for Malhovic Press

But, yes, I agree that one should have some very good game designers. At least one of them should have very good math skills - mathematical modeling (while not a substitutie for play testing) can save 100s or 1000s of hours of actual play time (focused on narrow issues).

I'd also prefer if there's a bit more gender diversity in the core team next time.

 

[Aldarc]

Is it just me, or does much of this thread read a bit like an ad for Malhovic Press

Well the Alternate Players' Handbook that is AU/AE did some new things (racial transformations, racial levels, universal magic system that is close to standard D&D, spell templates, combat rites).

 

[Slobber Monster]

The one thing I think I would like to overhaul in DnD are what I consider to be the many "bland" magical spells and (especially) items. From a cinematic point of view - what's really the difference between masterwork armor and +1 magic armor? What about wearing and not wearing Guantlets of Ogre Power? Shouldn't an item with a name like that give a normal Str 10 person a bigger boost than adding 20 lbs to their military press? Heck, I could improve mine by that much in a month or six if I resumed weight-lifting, and noone would suddenly think I was as strong as an ogre. All the other stat boosting items suffer from this, as do flat weapon pluses and the save and AC boosting items. I think I would much rather have all the incremental boosting just included in class abilities, or basic level advancement (as Iron Heroes does I believe).

However, this absolutely does not mean that I want a low-magic default game. It's just that I would rather the magic items actually allowed the characters to do something they couldn't before. So rings of featherfalling, boots of flying, figurines of wondrous power, staffs of wizardry, etc. -all the type of magic items I consider to be fun would still have a place in the game. Gauntlets of Ogre Power would still be there even - it's just that they would really make a man as strong as an ogre (just like they did in AD&D). Obviously any powered up items and spells would need some rebalancing, but I don't see that as a huge barrier.


Edit - I mean rebalancing via GP value, caster level requirements, treasure tables, etc.